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Topic: delamination kit WARNING

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Message posted by masterted on 10/11/2013 at 9:03am

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masterted

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Message posted by masterted on 10/11/2013 at 9:01am
masterted

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hi everone. just wanted to share some rather worrying info with you all. we had a badly delaminated floor which after speaking to lots of people and reading all the forums, we pumped with 3 delamination kits as per manufacturers instructions. problems solved, floor was perfect and we eventually sold the van on with. heres the problem-yesterday i spoke to a caravan repairs and salvage company. the
conversation got round to the delamination work we had done. the man told me that puttibg just a delamination kit in your floor is an
absolute NO! as it only lasts around a year. it doesnt like frost or
damp which all our caravans have to endure through winter!
apparently it breaks up over time as it is in a high traffic area and has
no real strengh. they use a high density foam first (i think he said an
expanding foam) and then the resin as this is far tougher, durable,
frost resistant etc. i would like to say that he wasnt trying to sell me
anything, just sharing advice. this is really worrying as i would like to
think any repairs we do are long term and not just a short term fix! just
wondered what the experts in these forums think please??? or does anyone have any experience of this? thanks

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Message posted by Pickled Onion on 10/11/2013 at 1:11pm

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Be interested in the replis too as mine needs some work done.

Dave

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Never argue with a stupid person, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Message posted by Jack+Jon on 10/11/2013 at 1:46pm

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It depends on the floor. If its solid plywood then delamination would be the glue between the laminations degrading causing the layers of wood to separate. Then a delamination kit should work, ie drill accurately through floor not quite out the other side through, squirt in the epoxy resin which should penetrate between the laminations & glue plywood back together.

The glue is 2part epoxy & dries hard. Many(most)caravan floors are thin ply, thick layer of closed cell foam & another thin ply layer underneath. With this sort of floor very accurate drilling would be required to drill through top ply, foam & then just into but not through bottom ply.

The caravan repair man appears to be suggesting that new foam needs to be injected in along with the glue. I can'y really see what he means because there is no reason why the foam would degrade, the glue would need to find its way between the ply laminations & ply to foam join. It is true that epoxy glue on its own has little tensile strength but provided it is injected into all gaps it will glue everything back together. Theres no reason why a delamination kit should not do a permanent repair provided it is done properly which does require a bit of skill & care. If the floor is damp then I doubt it would properly stick back together anyway & freezing weather would tend to separate the floor again as water expands as it freezes.

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Regards, Jack+Jon.

Message posted by Al+Mel on 10/11/2013 at 2:31pm

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Epoxy won't stick to dust, greasy or wet surfaces (like everything else) and UV will degrade it. Other than that it is inert, a superb adhesive, and lasts for ever.

I repaired a delaminated area of the (triple skin, balsa core) hull of our yacht 17 years ago using epoxy and it's still as solid as a rock now.

Use of dowels on a caravan floor repair will stiffen and strengthen further. I can't see a problem with this method.

Message posted by Battie on 10/11/2013 at 3:14pm View Profile My Homepage Quote Tell a friend
Battie Gold Member Outfit: Avondale argente 530 5 Location: SHROPSHIRE Joined: 16/6/2008 Posts: 251 Site Reviews: 7 Tent Reviews: 2 Gallery Images: 3	Putting expanding foam can lift the floor. Use a resin kit and dowel ------------- LB Caravan Services Mobile service and repairs 07902012609 / 01948662374

Message posted by Frannyvan on 10/11/2013 at 3:57pm View Profile Quote Tell a friend
Frannyvan Platinum Member Outfit: Swift Classic Corvette 1998 Location: Dorset Joined: 08/7/2013 Posts: 643 Site Reviews: 6 Gallery Images: 2	We were going to have ours done by our local caravan repair place which is very reputable but decided it was too expensive and we could do it ourselves. They were going to use the exact same method as the DIY kit, so can't be that dreadful. ------------- Haycraft CC Hurn Lane CC Godrevy CC East Fleet Farm Henley CC

Message posted by LobeyDosser on 10/11/2013 at 3:57pm

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Just out of interest and because damp conditions were mentioned in the answers, when applying Builders expending foam to a gap, the instructions state that you should first spray the area with water to dampen it and then squirt in the foam as this helps the expanding reaction of the foam.
I know from experience that this stuff sticks to any surface.

So wouldn't builders foam be the ideal material to use in the case of delamination caused by damp?

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Lobey.

Message posted by Al+Mel on 10/11/2013 at 5:14pm

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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 10/11/2013

Just out of interest and because damp conditions were mentioned in the answers, when applying Builders expending foam to a gap, the instructions state that you should first spray the area with water to dampen it and then squirt in the foam as this helps the expanding reaction of the foam.
I know from experience that this stuff sticks to any surface.
So wouldn't builders foam be the ideal material to use in the case of delamination caused by damp?

Its great stuff, as long as there is somewhere for the excess foam to go. If there isn't it can push things apart. Does stick like mad tho!

Message posted by michael on 10/11/2013 at 5:30pm

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used many glues over the years for various repairs big and small.takes a brave man to use expanding foam between two 5 mm ply sheets imho.plus under pressure from the weight of people walking on it will crush it after time.as said before epoxy resin used correctly will be as strong as any glue you can use.have also seen other things damaged by using foam.epoxy resin is also used in many components of cars to prevent moisture getting in.

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the only silly question is the one you do not ask.

Message posted by masterted on 10/11/2013 at 8:06pm

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hi i dont think it was a builders expanding foam, it was something else it called it, maybe high density??? i dont know but i would like to add that recently we were shown 2 bailey caravans, 12 and 7 years old that were undergoing repairs and both had an expanding foam around tge edges of floor at bottom of walls, we asked what it was and the man told is its a form of expanding foam bailey use in the manufacture of there vans. this was a different man/ business to the man that warned me about delamination kits so there has got to be some truth in the expanding foam in floor story, surely???

Message posted by beechy on 10/11/2013 at 8:48pm View Profile Quote Tell a friend
beechy Gold Member Outfit: Lunar Lx2000 525L. Cmax 2.0 tdci Location: Derbyshire Joined: 21/9/2005 Posts: 204 Site Reviews: 0 Gallery Images: 0	The resin will solid and apart from not having strengthening fibres it will usually outlast foam of any kind. If foam is inserted first how the hell do you get any resin in afterwards?? I think a sniffometer for bulls**t may be required next time you speak to the guy.

Message posted by jayc001 on 10/11/2013 at 8:49pm

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Pretty sure bailey used something similar to gorilla glue in the construction of their vans for the floor edge bonding. I know my bailey had this oozed out around the edges of the floor. I've used a lot of gorilla glue on repairs and when set it looks very similar. It's an expanding polyurethane adhesive but doesn't expand anywhere near as much as the can'd foam.

As for the original comment like anything the repair is all down to how well it was performed. Even the best delam kit in the hands of a wally won't work well. Not mixed correctly, applied in the wrong way or temperature and it'snot likely to last.

Message posted by Al+Mel on 10/11/2013 at 9:41pm View Profile Quote Tell a friend
Al+Mel Platinum Member Outfit: Fleetwood Heritage 640 EB & ML270 Location: Hants Joined: 18/9/2010 Posts: 1308 Site Reviews: 0 Gallery Images: 2	Quote: Originally posted by jayc001 on 10/11/2013 Not mixed correctly, applied in the wrong way or temperature and it'snot Certainly is!

Message posted by masterted on 10/11/2013 at 10:38pm View Profile Quote Tell a friend
masterted Standard Member Outfit: coachman genius 520 Location: norfolk broads Joined: 11/10/2011 Posts: 41 Site Reviews: 0 Gallery Images: 0	thanks jayc001, youve explained the foam in our bailey then. youve all put my mind at ease a bit now, epoxy is the way to go!!! thanks everyone x

Message posted by Pickled Onion on 11/11/2013 at 11:11am

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Good post mate and lots of knowledge gained from the replies, resin & dowel it is for me then.

Dave

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Never argue with a stupid person, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Message posted by michael on 28/3/2014 at 1:05am View Profile Quote Tell a friend
michael Diamond Member Outfit: CARAVAN NOW SOLD. Location: LANCASHIRE ENGLAND Joined: 30/6/2002 Posts: 23517 Site Reviews: 1 Gallery Images: 3	lots to read http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/search.asp?search=delamination&searchMode=phrase&searchIn=Topic&forum=31&searchSort=dateDESC&ly=&Submit=Start+Search ------------- the only silly question is the one you do not ask.

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