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Subject Topic: New battery time Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by sprite1275 via mobile 29/5/2022 at 10:49am
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Don't know much about leisure batteries. I need one that can power a dometic fridge box and little TV for about 3 days if that's possible.

Are lithium batteries worth their money? And can they just be swapped out for a normal one?

Message posted by Monty1529/5/2022 at 12:18pm
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You need to be more specific with the actual appliances and state their power requirements, as with some it's an absolute no, and with others a definite yes!

Your 'fridge box' can be one of three different types, an Absorption type fridge (typically the 3 way gas/240v/12v type), or a Peltier/Thermo Electric type 'coolbox', both of which are definitely no as far too high power consumption on 12v, or a compressor type fridge that can often work for days on a suitable sized battery.

If a modern LED TV, that doesn't draw much power and shouldn't be a problem for a few hours a day, if an old style 'big boxy' CRT type, that probably consumes too much power.

Lithium batteries can be worth the money if you are going to use it's potential/capacity, otherwise just a waste of money as complete overkill for a job well within scope of a ordinary lead leisure battery. As to straight swap, can be depending on scope of battery charger.

Would help if you'd told up of how you are using the equipment, Caravan/MH, tent etc.

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Message posted by sprite1275 via mobile 29/5/2022 at 8:18pm
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Cheers chap. Basically the fridge is a compressor type cool box. The TV is a small led type. It's a camper van that I've converted from an old utility water van.

Message posted by Oswestry Ed via mobile 30/5/2022 at 8:10pm
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I can't justify the extra cost of a Lithium Battery.
I've just replaced a 95ah AGM with a 110ah AGM.
We do have 120w solar, but before we had it we could stand free for 4 days. We also use van all year, mostly without EHU.
We have compressor fridge, no TV but use USB to recharge :- radio, mobile &, tablet.
You could have a holiday with the price difference.

https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/

Message posted by sprite127530/5/2022 at 8:41pm
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So you recommend an AGM battery with the highest possible AH?

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Message posted by Oswestry Ed via mobile 31/5/2022 at 8:14pm
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That is what I have done.
The last AGM battery lasted 7 years, the new one has a 5 year guarantee.
They are still fitted as standard equipment on many vans.
You could have many holidays on the saving.

Message posted by SoggySteve02/6/2022 at 9:21am
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Quote: Originally posted by sprite1275 on 30/5/2022
So you recommend an AGM battery with the highest possible AH?



Best technology is Lithium Ion at the moment though they are very expensive as you will know. Over 500 for 100ah. A decent AGM can be had for less than a third of that. So what's the difference?

100ah AGM can run down to 50% before needing a recharge (they can go lower in emergencies and some people just go lower as they don't know better). 100ah Lithium Ion can hit 20% and sometimes lower with little to no issues though their overall cycle count is generally lowered. So 100ah AGM has a usable 50ah and the Lithium 80ah.

An AGM can achieve roughly 500+ full cycle recharges (ideally down to a discharge of 50%, or less, of its capacity). Some lithium battery manufacturers quote 6000+ cycles (at a 50% discharge but I think that's just covering themselves personally).

So. If it's the long term that you're looking at then i'd go for Lithium all day long. If you don't have 500-600 to bash on something you'll rarely use then AGM.

The thing with lead acid batteries is to keep them topped up. If you are storing your vehicle for a while then AGM have a low self discharge though i'd highly recommend chucking some solar on the roof. It's relatively easy to do yourself and not really that expensive.

The main issue here is working out how much power the items you will be running will require and for how long each day. 100ah really isn't very much when you have some constant draw on especially considering you only get half of that at a push. Topping it up with solar will change all that depending on the quality and size of your array and charging system. A topic for another day maybe...

Message posted by gari04/6/2022 at 10:16pm
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Quote: Originally posted by sprite1275 on 30/5/2022
So you recommend an AGM battery with the highest possible AH?



This site http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php
has some great information about leisure batteries. Although it gets a bit technical - you can just jump to their recommendations.

Message posted by Monty1505/6/2022 at 10:24am
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Check your battery locker size (if you have one) in your van/conversion to ensure any potential battery will fit. Many common/standard external access lockers can't accommodate more than a 100Ah sized battery!

Just before I read the above link, I was about to say AGM leisure batteries have fallen heavily out of favour recently, they haven't performed well over time in a number of aspects, so no longer seem to be the 'go to' technology and are being dropped my manufacturers due to their shortcomings!

Well worth reading the the above link article and trying to get to grips with some of the techno babble, especially about gassing if your battery is mounted internally/un-vented in your van.

Message posted by SoggySteve via mobile 05/6/2022 at 10:47am
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Quote:

Well worth reading the the above link article and trying to get to grips with some of the techno babble, especially about gassing if your battery is mounted internally/un-vented in your van.



AGM batteries dont need gassing as they are sealed. I think they have an emergency blow out and can be mounted on their side. Good point though as a lot of people probably havent vented their stand deep cycle lead acid batteries.

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Message posted by sprite127508/6/2022 at 11:20am
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Quote: Originally posted by gari on 04/6/2022
Quote: Originally posted by sprite1275 on 30/5/2022
So you recommend an AGM battery with the highest possible AH?



This site http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php
has some great information about leisure batteries. Although it gets a bit technical - you can just jump to their recommendations.



Sorry for late reply folks been away. Ok so looks like EFB batteries are the ones to go for then reading that site.

Message posted by sprite1275 via mobile 08/6/2022 at 11:41am
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Quote: Originally posted by SoggySteve on 02/6/2022
Quote: Originally posted by sprite1275 on 30/5/2022
So you recommend an AGM battery with the highest possible AH?



Best technology is Lithium Ion at the moment though they are very expensive as you will know. Over 500 for 100ah. A decent AGM can be had for less than a third of that. So what's the difference?

100ah AGM can run down to 50% before needing a recharge (they can go lower in emergencies and some people just go lower as they don't know better). 100ah Lithium Ion can hit 20% and sometimes lower with little to no issues though their overall cycle count is generally lowered. So 100ah AGM has a usable 50ah and the Lithium 80ah.

An AGM can achieve roughly 500+ full cycle recharges (ideally down to a discharge of 50%, or less, of its capacity). Some lithium battery manufacturers quote 6000+ cycles (at a 50% discharge but I think that's just covering themselves personally).

So. If it's the long term that you're looking at then i'd go for Lithium all day long. If you don't have 500-600 to bash on something you'll rarely use then AGM.

The thing with lead acid batteries is to keep them topped up. If you are storing your vehicle for a while then AGM have a low self discharge though i'd highly recommend chucking some solar on the roof. It's relatively easy to do yourself and not really that expensive.

The main issue here is working out how much power the items you will be running will require and for how long each day. 100ah really isn't very much when you have some constant draw on especially considering you only get half of that at a push. Topping it up with solar will change all that depending on the quality and size of your array and charging system. A topic for another day maybe...



The two main things we use are the fridge and TV. The TV let's say 2 hours a day. The fridge does it's thing and switches on/off as it wishes.
Here are two pics of there power ratings



So what's the best way to calculate the AH we need per day? Also on top of this could be charging phones.

Here is a pic of the battery compartment.


It's not finished yet but if I move the fuse compartments and take out the ones we don't need, I could fit a battery right up to the split charge which would be about 520mm in length. (If needed) .


Message posted by SoggySteve18/6/2022 at 10:51am
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Quote:
So what's the best way to calculate the AH we need per day? Also on top of this could be charging phones.



The fridge claims to use 6amps at 12vdc which is quite high. Times that by 24hrs and you would discharge a 300ah AGM to half it's capacity (DOD-Depth of Discharge), which is kind of your limit, in one day. TV is 16 watts so divide 16 by your battery voltage of say 12.8 which is about 1.25amps which is 2.5ah for your two hour watch which is obviously virtually nothing.

Personally, if I had a fridge that uses 6amps per hour i'd get a new one. Our Webasto Cruise 65 is a 65ltr built in 12vdc fridge and uses around 1ah or less which is a sixth or less than yours and could run a 300ah battery down to 50% in around 6 days.

Even if you do what is almost essential in your situation and put solar on the roof, re-charging that 150ah of power a day in the Uk is a large ask even if you squashed 400watts of solar on the roof.

I always say to people to get the most efficient versions of things that you can as amp hours in batteries are precious and your fridge is just too much of a power junky in my opinion.

There are other fridges like ours but we've had ours for around 7 years now and it's just fantastic.

If you wish to calculate this stuff yourself and the unit you are powering doesn't have its AMP requirements written on it then look for the wattage and divide that number by the voltage which is most cases I do by using 12.8 volts (with a 12 volt system obviously!). As an example, your TV claims 16watts so 16 divided by 12.8 is 1.25 which is the amount of amps it uses which will be that for one hour, giving you it's Amp Hour rating. Your fridge however more helpfully claims 6amps at 12vdc so 6 x 24(hours in the day) is 144 which is 144 amps in one day. A basic 100ah lead acid battery will have its life cycles reduced from an already relatively average number if you drop it past 50ah so your fridge would use that battery's total recommended consumption in 8 hours (50 by 6ah is 8.3hrs)

Post last edited on 18/06/2022 11:00:31

Message posted by Ernie DB20/6/2022 at 8:32am
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Quote: Originally posted by SoggySteve on 18/6/2022
Quote:
So what's the best way to calculate the AH we need per day? Also on top of this could be charging phones.



The fridge claims to use 6amps at 12vdc which is quite high. Times that by 24hrs and you would discharge a 300ah AGM to half it's capacity (DOD-Depth of Discharge), which is kind of your limit, in one day. TV is 16 watts so divide 16 by your battery voltage of say 12.8 which is about 1.25amps which is 2.5ah for your two hour watch which is obviously virtually nothing.

Personally, if I had a fridge that uses 6amps per hour i'd get a new one. Our Webasto Cruise 65 is a 65ltr built in 12vdc fridge and uses around 1ah or less which is a sixth or less than yours and could run a 300ah battery down to 50% in around 6 days.

Even if you do what is almost essential in your situation and put solar on the roof, re-charging that 150ah of power a day in the Uk is a large ask even if you squashed 400watts of solar on the roof.

I always say to people to get the most efficient versions of things that you can as amp hours in batteries are precious and your fridge is just too much of a power junky in my opinion.

There are other fridges like ours but we've had ours for around 7 years now and it's just fantastic.

If you wish to calculate this stuff yourself and the unit you are powering doesn't have its AMP requirements written on it then look for the wattage and divide that number by the voltage which is most cases I do by using 12.8 volts (with a 12 volt system obviously!). As an example, your TV claims 16watts so 16 divided by 12.8 is 1.25 which is the amount of amps it uses which will be that for one hour, giving you it's Amp Hour rating. Your fridge however more helpfully claims 6amps at 12vdc so 6 x 24(hours in the day) is 144 which is 144 amps in one day. A basic 100ah lead acid battery will have its life cycles reduced from an already relatively average number if you drop it past 50ah so your fridge would use that battery's total recommended consumption in 8 hours (50 by 6ah is 8.3hrs)

Post last edited on 18/06/2022 11:00:31



Another faux pas, Steve????

Before denigrating someones kit and bigging up your own, at least learn the difference between rated input amps and Amp/hours. Or at least do some research.
https://www.waecofridges.co.uk/freezer/cf35.htm

The Waeco CF35 is compressor fridge with thermostatic control

Current Consumption
     
0.56 Amp/hour at +20C ambient temperature,
0.71 Amp/hour at +32C ambient temperature,
both at +5C interior temperature


-------------
Never argue with fools........They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Message posted by SoggySteve via mobile 21/6/2022 at 3:54pm
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QUOTE]Originally posted by Ernie DB on 20/6/2022
Quote: Originally posted by SoggySteve on 18/6/2022
Quote:
So what's the best way to calculate the AH we need per day? Also on top of this could be charging phones.




Another faux pas, Steve????

Before denigrating someones kit and bigging up your own, at least learn the difference between rated input amps and Amp/hours. Or at least do some research.
https://www.waecofridges.co.uk/freezer/cf35.htm

The Waeco CF35 is compressor fridge with thermostatic control

Current Consumption
     
0.56 Amp/hour at +20�C ambient temperature,
0.71 Amp/hour at +32�C ambient temperature,
both at +5�C interior temperature




Thanks

I do though not appreciate your idea that I am here to denigrate anyone�s equipment in favour of gaining some sort of glory for my own choices and I�ll leave that to the discerning reader to work out whether your accusations of me doing so are true.

If someone comes on here and takes pictures of their equipment stating 6amps at 12vdc then I�ll work with that (granted I could have gone to their website and looked at their dubious claims but). Yeah that is the claimed input and their claimed input on their website is 45watts which is 3.5amps at 12vdc. Make up your mind time? Anyone that takes their Ah claims is foolish as peoples situations vary greatly. Their two claims of 6amps snd 3.5 amps DC with no time constants specified. I�d like you to clamp meter that fridge when it�s on and do some sort of average over a 24hr period. Ideally using a proper shunt like the Victron smart shunt or similar and with a lifePo battery with a bluetooth BMS then get back to me. Make sure you average open fridge door times as well.

Your assumption that I don�t understand amp hours is insulting to be honest. It�s one of the easiest cancellations to make though I�d lean to agree that judging a constant draw from any device other than a bench test with a static draw is arbitrary. Fridges, as you will know, will have a claimed current from the manufacturer that is to be taken with a pinch of salt as well as their ah claims. Add to that that some users will open and close their fridges frequently is another thing to consider s well as them constantly putting warm items in the fridge. Why don�t you average the current draw over 24hrs and post that out here. That would be more helpful as I doubt the manufacturer is writing their figures based on normal usage. More a well ventilated area with no fridge opening as their ideal. Then explain the 45watts and the 6a at 12vdc please

To be honest. I only come here to sometimes get opinions from people but more often to help people out and your reply quite frankly puts me off. I�ll let the insult go this once and if you want to answer the question that the OP asked then I�ll wait with bated breath for your answer. Go for it and impress me with 24hr averages and real world Ah consumption then we really do have something to work with otherwise I’d always advise people to go with worst world figures than manufacturers claims.

Post last edited on 21/06/2022 16:15:44

Post last edited on 21/06/2022 16:19:00

Post last edited on 21/06/2022 16:25:55


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