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Message posted by tim-wilson on 17/7/2008 at 10:49pm
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Message posted by tim-wilson on 17/7/2008 at 10:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by tim-wilson on 17/7/2008
Quote: Originally posted by janus on 17/7/2008
It is the uncalculated that I query, from my calculations it is cheaper to run and pay for the DMF to be done than to run the equivalent petrol version. The savings over 5 years more than offset any potential serious breakdown costs which would be less likely to apply to a petrol car. You could easily have bought a petrol car and had a serious clutch failure on that with similar expenses. 

Your argument collapses, rather like a Ford DMF, when compared to other diesel engines though doesn`t it.


Buy one at 6 months old but for heaven sake sell it before it ges out of warranty, after that its madness to keep one unless someone else has done the work.


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Message posted by Sproz on 17/7/2008 at 11:19pm
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Don't forget the poor old Volvo V50 owner and any other ford TDCI engined car!! Mines being done next week, luckily its a company car and still under warranty, I would not cope having that bill coming in.

We should all demand a re-call through what car, which, ford,  etc etc


Message posted by janus on 18/7/2008 at 12:05am
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Quote: Originally posted by tim-wilson on 17/7/2008
Quote: Originally posted by tim-wilson on 17/7/2008
Quote: Originally posted by janus on 17/7/2008
It is the uncalculated that I query, from my calculations it is cheaper to run and pay for the DMF to be done than to run the equivalent petrol version. The savings over 5 years more than offset any potential serious breakdown costs which would be less likely to apply to a petrol car. You could easily have bought a petrol car and had a serious clutch failure on that with similar expenses. 

Your argument collapses, rather like a Ford DMF, when compared to other diesel engines though doesn`t it.Buy one at 6 months old but for heaven sake sell it before it ges out of warranty, after that its madness to keep one unless someone else has done the work.


Not at all, my arguement simply says that if you factor in the cost of replacing the DMF into the full cost of running the car the TDCi is still considerably cheaper over the cars lifetime than runiing an identical model with a petrol engine. I bought mine at 12 months old, and the guarantee runs out in August the savings I have already made in running costs over two years have already wiped out the extra I paid for it over a petrol model and would also pay for the DMF and anciliaries to be replaced. The DMF issue is not exclusive to Ford, it is a problem with VW/ Audi with Toyota, with Peugeot, Citroen,  with Volvo ( ford by another name ) in fact almost all modern diesels are fitted with them and they pose the same risk for every manufacturer.

 


Message posted by tim-wilson on 18/7/2008 at 7:41pm
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If your comparing a diesel with a petrol Im not sure why as Sparky was asking about a diesel. My argument is that there are too many people wearing white socks but that is similarly irrelevant to the initial thread.

DMF failures are a major problem on TDCi engines and rare on Vw and Toyota`s. Also Ford will rip you off to have it fixed, VW will charge you half as much. Ford are aware its a crap engine part but refuse to do anything about it. the good ones are fine but face the facts its not a patch on the Honda, VW or the GM engines which are stronger, longer lasting and more refined. Run a TDCi on idle next to any of the above and you`ll see, its comparitively a bag of bolts. As for it being the best towcar you`ll fing that the CC voted the petrol version the overall winner this year and the Vectra was the best family estate car 2005 and 2007 and runner up 2008(Whatcar I think). Last year the VW won the towcar (CC). Take your pick Ive owned both the Vectra and theMondeo and my brother owns a VW Passat and the Mondeo cant hold a candle to either in my and his opinion.

 



Post last edited on 18/07/2008 20:29:44

Message posted by Sproz on 18/7/2008 at 9:55pm
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I have to disagree re the passat, the current versions diesel is still noisy compared to others, however this is due to be replaced soon with a new engine.

I had a 2001 passat 1.9 tdi 100hp, probably the worst car I've owned!! bad handling, noisy engine, very unreliable, (water pump, 3x bootlocks, 2x electric window switches, air mass meter)

the next car was a 2004 laguna estate 1.9tdi 120hp, apart from the turbo being replaced at 65k it was faultless, now there's a turn up for the books!!!!

the current 2005 Volvo has been fine so far apart from the under warrantly DMF, the ford diesel is superb.

I had a new 08 Mondeo diesel as a hire car recently, seemed a great car for the 2 days i had it, also its just won towcar of the year. However the new passat still seems very attractive to me, but i would def test drive it to check its quieter than the old one.

i wouldn't hesitate buying a mondy, all in all a good car. 


Message posted by tim-wilson on 18/7/2008 at 10:43pm
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The petrol mondeo won the cc towcar award 2008 not the TDCi. As Ive said before a Mondeo TDCi out of warranty is a worthless bag of bolts. Its a nightmare of a financial mess................. and a  16 of a car. whenever I see one on the road a wave of pity overcomes me for the poor unsuspecting sod who`s got a bill from hell just around the corner

never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Message posted by Sproz on 18/7/2008 at 11:07pm
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To be honest i didn't know of the DMF problems the diesels had until reading posts on here, i just took mine in for its service and mentioned the sqeaky clutch, next thing it was booked in for the change!! i must admit that its a company car so I don't stress over costs or reliability, however my post above tells a story.

I think any modern diesel is great as a towcar, i don't think i would ever go back to a petrol, even after having a 200hp petrol in the past. The torque of any diesel when towing or general driving is superb, most 16v petrols don't produce that sort of power until 5000rpm and who drives around at those revs all day long. The finer points of which to choose comes down to reliability, running costs and personal choice.

I must admit the 2000cc tdi mondy was noisy but very driveable, the tdci is quieter and just as driveable, however I turned one down as a company car. Most Fords are and always have been a drivers car, great handling and that feeling of being in control, nobody can really pinpoint why this is but its been the case since the Mk1 escort. I remember being at the limit, understeering  in my passat around the M25/M40 sliproad and a tdci Galaxy driver taking me on the outside, i though how the hell  !!!!


Message posted by daviddaw on 19/7/2008 at 1:16am
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Quote: Originally posted by Sproz on 18/7/2008

To be honest i didn't know of the DMF problems the diesels had until reading posts on here, i just took mine in for its service and mentioned the sqeaky clutch, next thing it was booked in for the change!! i must admit that its a company car so I don't stress over costs or reliability, however my post above tells a story.

I think any modern diesel is great as a towcar, i don't think i would ever go back to a petrol, even after having a 200hp petrol in the past. The torque of any diesel when towing or general driving is superb, most 16v petrols don't produce that sort of power until 5000rpm and who drives around at those revs all day long. The finer points of which to choose comes down to reliability, running costs and personal choice.

I must admit the 2000cc tdi mondy was noisy but very driveable, the tdci is quieter and just as driveable, however I turned one down as a company car. Most Fords are and always have been a drivers car, great handling and that feeling of being in control, nobody can really pinpoint why this is but its been the case since the Mk1 escort. I remember being at the limit, understeering  in my passat around the M25/M40 sliproad and a tdci Galaxy driver taking me on the outside, i though how the hell  !!!!


I reckon that the Galaxy was able to go around you while you were at the limit because you were in the inside lane.  The road surface of the inside lane is usually much more worn than the outside one; it is also where most of the diesel and oil is dropped, which makes it much more slippery. 

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Message posted by janus on 19/7/2008 at 11:50am
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Quote: Originally posted by tim-wilson on 18/7/2008

If your comparing a diesel with a petrol Im not sure why as Sparky was asking about a diesel. My argument is that there are too many people wearing white socks but that is similarly irrelevant to the initial thread.

DMF failures are a major problem on TDCi engines and rare on Vw and Toyota`s. 
Post last edited on 18/07/2008 20:29:44


My comparison with a petrol car was simply to highlight the fact that over the life of the car the cost of running the petrol version would be much higher than the cost of running the diesel even if repairs such as a DMF are included in the cost.

On a personal level I have a number of friends and relations with Mondeo TDCi cars and none of them have had a DMF replaced, however my son had a VW on which the air con pump failed and VW demanded over 1000 to replace it, he traded the car rather than repair it and bought a 1 year old version of the same car with 12k miles on the clock and a month later had a DMF replaced, now two years later he is looking at the same problem. My Brother also has a VW and again he has had the DMF replaced on a car with 25k on the clock. When reading the trade papers they all say that every car from every manufacturer that uses a DMF on it's diesel cars there is a problem with failure of the part.

 


Message posted by redz on 19/7/2008 at 8:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by tim-wilson on 18/7/2008

The petrol mondeo won the cc towcar award 2008 not the TDCi. As Ive said before a Mondeo TDCi out of warranty is a worthless bag of bolts. Its a nightmare of a financial mess................. and a  16 of a car. whenever I see one on the road a wave of pity overcomes me for the poor unsuspecting sod who`s got a bill from hell just around the corner

never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure you are correct about the fuel type.. it states here...diesel..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ford Mondeo wins 2008 Towcar Award

( note three of the winners were indeed TDCi )

The Ford Mondeo Estate 2.0 TDCi Titanium auto has beaten tough competition to be awarded overall winner in the second annual Towcar Awards, as judged by experts from What Car?, Practical Caravan and The Camping and Caravanning Club.

To help buyers choose the right match for their caravan or trailer, the cars were judged in five categories by kerbweight.
The category winners are:
Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi Titanium (up to 1425kg);
VW Golf Estate 2.0 TDi SE (1425-1574kg);
Ford Mondeo Estate 2.0 TDCi Titanium auto (1575-1724kg);
Jaguar XJ 2.7 TDVi Sport Premium (1725-1899kg);
Land Rover Discovery 2.7 TDV6 HSE (1900kg and above);
Ford Mondeo Estate 2.0 TDCi Titanium auto (overall winner).

heres the link

 hope that helps a little

 



Message posted by Ulti-Mates on 19/7/2008 at 9:54pm
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Hi,

 

We towed for many happy miles with a 130ps Mondeo tdci and an Ace Transtar (MTPLM 1350 or so)

It pulled like a train and achieved 32 mpg towing.

After it was sold on (a Company Car) the DMF, injectors and a micro processor box of some kind failed.....but that is another story.

 

Mr U-M


Message posted by tim-wilson on 19/7/2008 at 10:43pm
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Redz

As stated the Caravan club Towcar of the year was the petrol version as stated.

Its all largely irrelevant anyway. As Ive stated before the Mondeo TDCi is a fine towcar and deserves its reputation. Thats why I bought one..........to my cost.

Towcar awards are based on a nice new model towing a van around a testing track. They DO NOT take into consideration that 3 years/ 60k miles down the line the TDCi is costly to say the least.

Also you will find that many manufacturers do not submit thier cars for testing as they believe the process to be flawed.

Frankly I dont care what any of you drive, its just that this forum is for people asking for advice and opinions. Mine as with others on this forum is that the Mondeo TDCi should be avoided after it gets out of waranty at 3 years. Before that who cares its under warranty.


Message posted by BillHox on 20/7/2008 at 5:35am
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Hi,

This is the first time I have posted on the forum, the reason being is I have read so much misinformed drivel around DMF and vehicle reliability, I just felt the need to say something.

I can only give you info based upon my experiences, I have a Mondeo ST tdci and it is one of the best towing cars I have ever had (not perfect, but then what car is). More importantly I have my own business (car repairs). The issues with the DMF are usually caused by poor driving technique (facts, not opinion or fiction),  as other posts have said there are issues right across the range of cars which use them, others on the forum have tried to trivialise these comments. Once again, facts, the cars quoted do have similar problems and in some cases have worse issues to assault your wallet with. If the worst were to happen, then there are many repair premises that can do the DMF replacement at far less than the figures quoted by the main dealer. The job itself on a Mondeo takes around 4.5 hours to do and the bits if you should need them cost around 350, this is for a part which is exactly the same, or better than Fords fit. When you test drive one, look for a grumbling noise when you press the clutch and (so make sure the stereo is off) and a noisy starter, as this can often be the early warning of DMF failure.



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