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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Francais on 07/7/2017 at 10:37am
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Well the first batch of Model 3's are meant to be rolling of the production line today, could this be history in the making, I don't think any other auto maker has bagged over 400,000 pre order deposits for a new car before.

It sure looks a nice car, but I would have preferred to have seen it designed as a Hatch Back instead of being a Sedan Booted saloon.

Message posted by bessie500 on 07/7/2017 at 1:56pm
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My next cc is due in around 30 months, You never know with a bit of luck.................. but im never that lucky. so it will be diesel.

i heard that Volvo are to stop making normal cars from 2019, all cars then will be Hybrid or electric    

Bessie

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Message posted by Francais on 07/7/2017 at 4:15pm
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Yep Bessie, just picked up a new CC last month, another Mk7 VW Golf pretty much the same as my last one apart from built in satnav.

Although only a 1.6TDi there is no BlueMotion badge on this, and no AdBlue tank either.

This may be my last Diesel, next change over will be summer 2019.

I think the firm will go for Petrol models next, I will be suprised if they stick with Diesel.

I like the idea of PHEV or EV, as I believe the BIK is greatly reduced if not zero.

Whatever it is I get next, I don't care, so long as I can still tow the trailer, no guarantee of that though, unless I end up with a Petrol/Diesel CC.

Message posted by bessie500 on 07/7/2017 at 4:26pm
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A mate of mine was saying you can write a Tesla off in 12 months against tax same as a commercial van.

He's now thinking of buying one of the bigger ones for that reason

Bessie

Message posted by Francais on 07/7/2017 at 7:17pm
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Yep, it could be 2019 before we see the Tesla Model 3 on the streets here in the UK, as that is quite some back order they have to fill, before they start making RHD models.

Maybe even mainland Europe will get them first, who knows.

Message posted by Grampian91 on 08/7/2017 at 1:12pm
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Seen that blog and they said even on the level your looking at a 50 - 60% loss on range compared to not towing and thats with a teardrop caravan.

And with the hills its MUCH worse.

How long before they make something suitable to tow 1000kg to 1500kg over 300 miles? And thats with the lights and wipers and heater going at the legal limit not at 40mph which i think they did most of their journey at?






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Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.

Message posted by Francais on 08/7/2017 at 2:09pm
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Yep, well the Tesla Model X is very capable of towing a good sized caravan, and with the "Super Chargers" you can be back on the road again in 45 mins, with almost full range.

Of course the Model X is way beyond the reach for most folk at around 100k+.

As for the Model 3, I agree it's towing capacity is going to be quite limited, and that remains to be seen as there is no data coming from Tesla just yet.

For towing a small 500kg like what I have, I don't see a problem for the Model 3, there is very little drag from a camping trailer, less than a roofbox some would argue.

Message posted by Extremebiker0 on 08/7/2017 at 2:25pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 08/7/2017

And with the hills its MUCH worse.

How long before they make something suitable to tow 1000kg to 1500kg over 300 miles?



It will be a long time before you get that. I'm not sure it's possible with current EV technology. However your point about hills is off; what you lose on the way up the hill you get back on the way down you see, even when using the 'brakes'. In a fossil car the brake is just a disk that is grabbed by a caliper, and you lose that energy. In an EV the motor does most of the braking, and the motor puts that energy back into the batteries. It's called regenerative braking.

Your brakes are far less likely to over heat on said hill in an EV because of this, which can be a worry towing a big van in a fossil car.

Post last edited on 08/07/2017 14:38:34

Message posted by Francais on 08/7/2017 at 3:53pm
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I don't know were Grampian has been, but the towing spec for the all electric Tesla Model X is 2250kg and a Nose Weight of upto 227kg none towing range is 260 miles with the 75kwh battery, and even more with the new 100kwh battery.

So with fast SuperCharging, it looks like the future has arrived, it's just the charging infrastructure that needs to gear up, which of course it is doing almost on a daily basis.

Message posted by navver on 08/7/2017 at 7:47pm
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I feel the charging infrastructure will be a bit of a problem. If you have a 100kWh battery you want to charge in half an hour that's a 200kW load. Around 800 Amps single phase 288Amps 3 phase 400V.

That is serious power if you want to put a bank of those in at a service station.


Message posted by Francais on 08/7/2017 at 9:09pm
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All taken care of navver, current Tesla SuperCharger's deliver upto 145kw and the new V3 SuperCharger's will be 350kw according to Elon Musk.

I was quite suprised myself to see 4 Tesla SuperChargers at Keele Services Southbound last week.

In fact a Black Model S was taking some juice onboard, quite a din from the car's cooling fans, but hey, I just thought this is the future here and now.

Post last edited on 08/07/2017 21:35:13

Message posted by navver on 08/7/2017 at 9:53pm
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Yes I'm sure the chargers are available but what will be a problem is the electricity board mains distribution capacity to supply them. They are huge loads and if there are many of them major upgrades of supply distribution will be required.

We are at the point now where renewables such as solar and wind farms cannot go ahead because the supply distribution networks cannot take it.

These are run by private companies such as Western Power Distribution in our area. They will only embark on major upgrade if someone pays them to do it. if you are an investor wanting to build a big solar farm, you have to pay WPD to upgrade their cabling. They gain spare capacity as a result which your competitor immediately jumps on for his wind farm.

None of them want to be first in paying for it all.

So, someone is going to have to put their hand in their pocket to start providing this infrastructure.

What about at home. How are they going to plug in such a big load into a domestic supply.

When you get to your camp site having towed your van there, how are you going to get major power like that in the middle of nowhere.

One charger will be the equivalent of the power available to a 100 pitch camp site. All from a small overhead network.

Message posted by Extremebiker0 on 08/7/2017 at 10:21pm
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Quote: Originally posted by navver on 08/7/2017
Yes I'm sure the chargers are available but what will be a problem is the electricity board mains distribution capacity to supply them. They are huge loads and if there are many of them major upgrades of supply distribution will be required.

We are at the point now where renewables such as solar and wind farms cannot go ahead because the supply distribution networks cannot take it.

These are run by private companies such as Western Power Distribution in our area. They will only embark on major upgrade if someone pays them to do it. if you are an investor wanting to build a big solar farm, you have to pay WPD to upgrade their cabling. They gain spare capacity as a result which your competitor immediately jumps on for his wind farm.

None of them want to be first in paying for it all.

So, someone is going to have to put their hand in their pocket to start providing this infrastructure.

What about at home. How are they going to plug in such a big load into a domestic supply.

When you get to your camp site having towed your van there, how are you going to get major power like that in the middle of nowhere.

One charger will be the equivalent of the power available to a 100 pitch camp site. All from a small overhead network.



The point is that your car is only in use 3% of the time. The rest of the time (at home at night, at a camp site overnight) you trickle charge the car. The load on the grid is minimal, no more than an electric space heater, which camp sites are equipped to deal with.

The 120kw chargers are only for use en-route. Unlike a fossil car you don't take it to a charge station day-to-day, instead you charge at home or at the camp site overnight. Just like your mobile phone - you don't take that to a phone charging station do you?!

This is not pie in the sky stuff, I camp with my leaf all the time and we plug in at camp sites to charge the car. Never had a problem.

I still run a petrol car and believe me, once you're used to charging overnight it becomes a real PITA having to put petrol in. Though it could be more to do with having to pay so much for it 😋

As for grid upgrades, not many will be needed thanks to battery tech. You sound like you know what you're talking about so you will know that most sites if power constrained (either incoming or generator) are constrained by PEAK power. For example large plants have a startup power that far exceeds normal operating power, and the site incomer has to be sized for this, historically there's been no other way of dealing with it. But now in many cases it's more economical to size the incomer for normal load, and have a bank of batteries service the startup peak load. This way no grid upgrade is necessary.

In domestic car charging terms it's like this. I use say 6kw for 2 hours a night charging my car (12kwh). Currently this comes from the grid. But in the near future I will buy 12kwh batteries for my garage. I will draw 0.5kw from the grid constantly to charge these batteries and when charging my car it comes from the batteries rather than the grid. The grid can easily deal with 0.5kw per household. Or even better stick a solar array on the roof and nothing is required from the grid.

I priced this system up for my house recently and it was 5k. The way worldwide production capacity for battery tech is expanding though, prices are falling like a stone and I expect that figure to half next year.

Sorry for the essay!

Message posted by Francais on 09/7/2017 at 8:25am
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The move over to EV's is ramping up nicely, only a couple of years back, you hardly got to see a Leaf, now I see them every day, same with Tesla, although I only see around one Model "S" per week.

I don't get Hybrids, you might as well stick to a Petrol or Diesel, although Hybrids probably only exist because of the tax incentives.

To be fair, there is no place for the ice vehicle as we move into the future, with all the advances in electronics, the motor needs to be electric and controlled by electronics.

Let's face it the ice vehicle has had a good run, pun intended for it's money, it's been a nice little earner for the governments and oil companies not to mention garage repair shops.

Now it's the turn of the EV, with drive trains promising to last over 1 million miles, which pretty much put's the ice vehicle into the history books.

UK has to be one of the best countries to have an EV, we are a tiny island, so you are never going to be far way from a fast charging station.

200 miles range is now fast becoming the minimum range for EV's which more than suits most folks needs.

Message posted by Grampian91 on 09/7/2017 at 7:15pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Extremebiker0 on 08/7/2017
Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 08/7/2017

And with the hills its MUCH worse.

How long before they make something suitable to tow 1000kg to 1500kg over 300 miles?



It will be a long time before you get that. I'm not sure it's possible with current EV technology. However your point about hills is off; what you lose on the way up the hill you get back on the way down you see, even when using the 'brakes'. In a fossil car the brake is just a disk that is grabbed by a caliper, and you lose that energy. In an EV the motor does most of the braking, and the motor puts that energy back into the batteries. It's called regenerative braking.

Your brakes are far less likely to over heat on said hill in an EV because of this, which can be a worry towing a big van in a fossil car.

Post last edited on 08/07/2017 14:38:34




The amount of power regenerated on the way down is a TINY fraction of the power required to climb the hill.



-------------
Post 1997 licence holder?

Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.

Message posted by Grampian91 on 09/7/2017 at 7:17pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 08/7/2017
I don't know were Grampian has been, but the towing spec for the all electric Tesla Model X is 2250kg and a Nose Weight of upto 227kg none towing range is 260 miles with the 75kwh battery, and even more with the new 100kwh battery.

So with fast SuperCharging, it looks like the future has arrived, it's just the charging infrastructure that needs to gear up, which of course it is doing almost on a daily basis.




On the TESLA website and on the blog of the couple crossing the US (6200 miles) towing a teardrop trailer. The 250 mile range dropped to 140 miles towing the teardrop and i think it was 85 miles on the hills and they did a lot of it in eco mode at approx 40mph.





-------------
Post 1997 licence holder?

Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.


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