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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Mike3003 on 07/8/2017 at 10:11pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Extremebiker0 on 07/8/2017
Quote: Originally posted by Mike3003 on 07/8/2017
But I ain't, my big diesel guzzling 4x4 pick up truck, SUV and caravan take up the space!


Good look filling up with diesel over the coming years. Nobody's going to be opening new petrol stations when everyone's buying EV's.

You might need that slow little diesel pump at your garage after all :-)



So you obviously think filling stations as we know them will be non existent in the coming years, 10, 20, 30, 50? Really!

I genuinely hope that within 20 years there will be a vehicle that does not rely on fossil fuel at all, that will tow 3.5 tonne and cover 600 miles solo. But it will not be an EV, as they rely heavily on fossil fuel to generate the power.

I just cannot accept that EVs are any better for the environment when they rely on electricity generated and/or cooled by fossil fuel or nuclear.

Hybrid I can see the benefit, pure EV I just cannot.

Where is the logic.

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Message posted by Francais on 07/8/2017 at 10:42pm
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The Hybrid is only a stop gap, the EV will rule the world in the comming years, who cares how the electricity is produced, at the moment as that will change.

Burning Gas, Coal to generate electricity is short term in the great scheme of things, nuclear is the only real option, and the disposing of waste will be taken care off.

Setting up EV fast charging points is a doddle, compared to setting up a fuel station for fossil vehicles.

So deployment of EV fast charging points is moving at some pace.

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Message posted by Extremebiker0 on 07/8/2017 at 10:47pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Mike3003 on 07/8/2017
I genuinely hope that within 20 years there will be a vehicle that uses no fossil fuel at all...

I just cannot accept that EVs are any better for the environment when they rely on electricity generated and/or cooled by fossil fuel


8 months of the year 100% of my power comes from a 10kw solar array on my roof, this includes the Leaf. You cannot say I burn any fossil fuel in these months, it's simply not true. This is not technology that's 20 years in the future, this is now, and it keeps getting better and cheaper.

Quote: Originally posted by Mike3003 on 07/8/2017
Hybrid I can see the benefit, pure EV I just cannot.



Im sorry but if you can't see it its because you're not familiar with the technology. Its true that most people aren't as it's all moving so quickly. My 10kw array and 15kwh batteries would have been unthinkably expensive a few years back.

I have nothing against people who run SUVs by the way, I used to be a petrol head myself. Now I'm a battery head! And I know that if I can go through that transition from loving engines to loving motors, most people will. Honestly it won't be something that is forced upon you, one day the right EV for you will come out and you'll realise that electric drivetrains are better. Then you'll be me on the forums, trying to convince others of the benefits of EVs and coming across as an argumentative evangelist! :-P

Message posted by Mike3003 on 08/8/2017 at 8:02am
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Well I am glad you guys are able to predict the future, and the storage of nuclear waste will never become an issue. I am not against nuclear at all, It is the way ahead in my view, but then I am not an evangelical environmentalist, more a realist.

As I have said, I am all for domestic solar, no new build, extension or major refurb should be passed with out it. However a big no to these environmentaly detrimentsl solar farms.

So at least we seem to agree Nuclear is the only real option........But I am not sure the tree huggers would agree.

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Message posted by Troon on 08/8/2017 at 9:24am
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Fascinating site showing UK electricity generation:

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ (mouse over the meters for explanations)

The advantage of EVs, of course, is that they are "centrally upgraded" as the power plants are. So although today's EVs are 25% nuclear and 50% natural gas plus imports and biomass (at time of writing), any new solar / wind / tidal farms that come online benefit the entire EV fleet. ICE cars are stuck at the time of their manufacture.

Message posted by Extremebiker0 on 08/8/2017 at 10:48am
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Quote: Originally posted by Troon on 08/8/2017
Fascinating site showing UK electricity generation:

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ (mouse over the meters for explanations)


Yes it's an interesting site. One important caveat is that domestic rooftop solar like mine is unmetered and therefore not counted in the above figures. So solar contribution to the mix is always much higher than that site ever shows. Except at night when it's the same 😉

Message posted by Grampian91 on 08/8/2017 at 2:44pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 07/8/2017
The Hybrid is only a stop gap, the EV will rule the world in the comming years, who cares how the electricity is produced, at the moment as that will change.

Burning Gas, Coal to generate electricity is short term in the great scheme of things, nuclear is the only real option, and the disposing of waste will be taken care off.

Setting up EV fast charging points is a doddle, compared to setting up a fuel station for fossil vehicles.

So deployment of EV fast charging points is moving at some pace.



Nuclear maybe the only option, but can EDF afford to build the Hinkley Point plant? Similar designs currently being built are 6 years behind schedule and one EDF is building has a major design flaw. Even if it does work it will only provide 7% of the UKs energy.

The bonus with a petrol station is that with 12 pumps at say an average of 6 minutes a large number will be refueled and on their way. If having a 20 minute or more stay they will need much larger spaces.

How much power does a rapid charge consume? They will need massive cables to carry that power.

Quick google says 13000 connectors at 4600 locations, only 2350 are rapid chargers. But an average of 3 connectors per location?

Another issue with the nuclear plant, some dimwit at the government have promised EDF a price per unit thats double what we currently pay.

Going to be costly.


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Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.

Message posted by Mike3003 on 08/8/2017 at 7:25pm
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We can, and probably will, debate, discuss and, indeed, argue about the future of the Tesla with its lithium Ion batteries. But reading the report on the accident involving a Tesla in Indianapolis must be a little worrying surely.

So please, if you see a big grumpy, cynical git in a diesel guzzling 4x4 pick up truck in Devon when driving your Tesla.......Please don't crash into me. Thanks.

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Message posted by Grampian91 on 08/8/2017 at 8:40pm
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They missed some major issues with that case.

Tesla said the driver barely touched the controls and it should not have been driven like that.

My big question would have been why did the vehicle not think that was unsafe and slow down until the driver took some control?

If it can make mistakes like that it shouldnt be on the road. Although there are some drivers like that.

Will self driving cars need a driving licence?



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Post 1997 licence holder?

Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.

Message posted by Francais on 08/8/2017 at 9:04pm
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Less crash's in a Tesla car, per miles covered, compared to other makes, it does make you think.

A Tesla car crash always gains the attention of the media, I am sure Ford etc car crash's don't get the same attention!

A Tesla car bursting into flames is an instant media hit, but yet there are 1000's of ice cars bursting into flames every day, that no one cares about, apart from there owners maybe.

Message posted by Troon on 08/8/2017 at 9:38pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 08/8/2017
Quick google says 13000 connectors at 4600 locations, only 2350 are rapid chargers. But an average of 3 connectors per location?



Many people will be charging at home, of course. Only people on unusually long journeys will need to charge at a station.

Message posted by Mike3003 on 08/8/2017 at 9:43pm
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1000s of ICE cars bursting into flames EVERY day!

Goodness me, that is an awful lot, that, despite me driving for over 4 decades and NEVER seeing a car burst into flames, has got me really worried.

That's it, I am with you guys now. I would much rather be in a car of burning Lithium any day. Phew. Get these death trap ICE cars off the road I say, their track reckord is appalling.

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Message posted by bessie500 on 09/8/2017 at 12:15am
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In the last 2 years I've seen 3 on the m61 I actually only drive a 4 mile section before getting on the m60, 1 Renault scenic I Clio and - merc sprinter, I have seen others elsewhere but never really bother looking at them .

The scenic was really close to where I was As I was stuck in traffic , it went up really fast I was surprised just how quick it took hold, the Clio was literally weeks later on the same stretch

Bessie

Message posted by Francais on 09/8/2017 at 6:55am
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Yep 18,000 vehicle fires in the UK alone each year, although I am not sure how many of that number were attributed to EV's but I am guessing almost zero!

Look at the stats for the U.S.A. 174,000 vehicle fires in 2015.

Vehicle fires are more common than you may think, of course about a third are arson, for the insurance.

I am on the road a lot in my car 40k+ miles each year, and have been doing that kind of mileage and more since 1980, and see at least one burning car at the side of the road each month, none have been EV's though!

Post last edited on 09/08/2017 07:00:42

Message posted by Colin21 on 09/8/2017 at 8:56am
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 09/8/2017
Yep 18,000 vehicle fires in the UK alone each year, although I am not sure how many of that number were attributed to EV's but I am guessing almost zero!

Look at the stats for the U.S.A. 174,000 vehicle fires in 2015.

Vehicle fires are more common than you may think, of course about a third are arson, for the insurance.

I am on the road a lot in my car 40k+ miles each year, and have been doing that kind of mileage and more since 1980, and see at least one burning car at the side of the road each month, none have been EV's though!

Post last edited on 09/08/2017 07:00:42



It's all a matter of luck whether or not we see vehicle fires. I spent a good many years driving coaches and trucks all over the country, and in all that time I don't remember seeing more than one or two fires, and a couple more instances of where a fire had obviously been. However, if I had been in different places at different times, I may have seen three or four in my first year of driving. But now as I am retired I only drive about 8,000 miles a year, which must reduce my chances of seeing a fire.

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Message posted by Mike3003 on 09/8/2017 at 10:32am
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 09/8/2017
Yep 18,000 vehicle fires in the UK alone each year, although I am not sure how many of that number were attributed to EV's but I am guessing almost zero!

Look at the stats for the U.S.A. 174,000 vehicle fires in 2015.

Vehicle fires are more common than you may think, of course about a third are arson, for the insurance.

I am on the road a lot in my car 40k+ miles each year, and have been doing that kind of mileage and more since 1980, and see at least one burning car at the side of the road each month, none have been EV's though!

Post last edited on 09/08/2017 07:00:42



Great comparison, around 36,652,000 cars on British roads, around 47,000 are full EV. I am so glad I never went to university!

Obviously arson does account for a chunk of vehicle fires in the UK, but the EV that caught fire and totally burned out in Wickford, Essex, while on charge sat outside the owners house overnight, would worry me a tad. The cause......An electrical fault! Really!

The issue is not the numbers, it is the effect "Burning Lithium" has got a certain ring to it.

Look guys, I really hope you are right. A vehicle that has a GENUINE low carbon footprint (EVs are far from that) can do 500/700 miles solo, can tow up to 3.5 tonne up and down steep hills (I live in Devon) and still do 300 miles on a tank/charge and does not take an age to fill up.....But it ain't an EV, certainly not in the foreseeable future.

Have you any idea of the drain on the grid if you had 100s and 100s of service stations with 100 Tesla Super chargers each pulling 72amps each. The facility would need its own mini power station, and as much as I like domestic solar, please don't say Solar or wind. A massive back up generator would need to be installed, as they are now, running on? Now let me think!

Just one power outage at a major service station could bring the area to a standstill........Get that diesel generator going. 😀


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