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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Colin21 on 31/12/2017 at 7:33pm
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I just don't see where all the electricity is going to come from. If every F.F car were to be replaced by an EV by the end of next year, how many more power stations would be needed? Each power station when proposed meets untold amounts of opposition from locals. Then come all the endless planning meetings, protests etc, before construction starts (if it does) then it's another couple of years at least before it starts producing electricity.

Charging at home not a problem? It wouldn't be for me I must admit, but what if I lived on the 14th floor of a tower block, or had to park 2 streets away as that was the closest I could get? With a F.F. car they could fill up in a couple of minutes on the way home or on the way out. They don't need to top up at home.

I think F.F. vehicles will still be around, yes even diesels, in 10 maybe 20 years time, and IF EVs do eventually replace them, and that's a big IF in my book, it won't be anytime soon. Diesel-engined plant will probably be around even longer.

I have a 22 year old granddaughter, and if she learns to drive I wouldn't be surprised if she is still driving a F.F. fuelled car well into her 40s.

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Message posted by ST1100 on 31/12/2017 at 7:38pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 31/12/2017
No problem ST1100, the Tesla infrastructure for the UK will be in place by 2020, and hopefully by then some agreement will have been made between all the EV car manufacturers, so that any make model a EV can fast charge from any fast charger, be it Tesla, ChadeMo or CCS.

This is early days as yet, but mark my word, the fossil car will become a thing of the past, sooner than you think.



Will believe that when I see it up here .. we are still waiting for decent public transport in places .. would help if they spent anywhere near the amount per person they spend on those in London.

Those making the decisions in London thought the way to update the local trains up here was to convert the carriages that was considered too old for the London Underground.

Post last edited on 31/12/2017 20:01:53

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Message posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017 at 7:41pm
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Aye and how many cars can fill up in the time it takes one electric car to charge. The majority of petrol stations havent enough room to make it viable for them to convert to electric car charging stations.

As a matter of interest If I had an electric car that covers 150 miles on a charge . What does it cost to charge the battery , basically looking for. Cost per mile compared with a petrol or diesel car.

Message posted by Colin21 on 31/12/2017 at 8:08pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017
Aye and how many cars can fill up in the time it takes one electric car to charge. The majority of petrol stations havent enough room to make it viable for them to convert to electric car charging stations.

As a matter of interest If I had an electric car that covers 150 miles on a charge . What does it cost to charge the battery , basically looking for. Cost per mile compared with a petrol or diesel car.



I would imagine on that basis the EV would probably be cheaper per mile, but another question I would ask is; If an EV does 150 (or 250)miles per charge when new, how long will it continue to do that? I have had several Li battery powered drills that would go all day when I bought them, but within 2 years I could only drill 3 holes and the battery was knackered. I know it's not quite the same, but it still makes me wonder how long an EV's battery would carry on doing the same number of miles it did when new. And what would they cost to replace?


Post last edited on 31/12/2017 20:12:17

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Message posted by Francais on 31/12/2017 at 8:22pm
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The Tesla battery has a warranty to 8 years, to be still giving 80% capacity, anything less on capacity and you get the battery replaced.

The technology deployed by Tesla for there batteries is quite a closely guarded secret, and can't be compared to mobile phones or power tool batteries.

The management of the batteries is quite intensive, using liquid cooling, and heaters for cold weather.

Plenty of folk out there trying to hack the Tesla batteries, check out Jason Hughes and Jack Ricard for that stuff.

And for those wanting to know what it's like living with a Tesla car, Bjorn Nyland and Kim likes Tesla are worth a watch on YouTube.

Message posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017 at 8:24pm
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Extrembiker the issue isnít a lack of electricity in Scotland itís the remoteness of areas and distances you need to travel. Also as you point out there is electric on sites you stay on but this is often a limited supply . Try plugging in a domestic kettle and you can trip the supply. I know because I have done it and this was on a site at the edge of a town. What would happen if all the campers plugging in their cars after a day touring about. Your main supply cables would melt with the demand placed on them.

As much as folk would like these EV,s the infrastructure thatís required for this to be successful isnít in place and highly unlikely it will be for the majority of people driving on the roads today.

On another issue, what if you take your car abroad whatís the charging facilities like in France Spain, Holand? If we are all electric by 2040 does that stop people coming from abroad on holiday as there will be no petrol stations.




Post last edited on 31/12/2017 20:32:25

Message posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017 at 8:40pm
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Colin
Totally agree, it is the same. Batteries are at their most efficiency when new and gradually decline. Yes my battery tools are far more superior to the ones I had 10 years ago, but never the less I have a nice wee collection of drills that are still ok but the batteries are knackered. And strangle enough it is cheaper to buy a new kit than it is to buy replacement batteries.

A drill is a good example. You can drill 3mm holes all day. (Car running under limited load= good range)

You now need to drill 15mm holes the number of holes dramatically reduces need a charge before finishing the job in hand ( car under load, lights heater and passengers = less range)

You need to drill 15mm holes through bricks you always have a spare on charge ( Towing your caravan, awning in boot wife and kids in car with d d player plugged in, wife charging phone satnav on, couple of bikes on the roof = no point may as well get the train lol)


Post last edited on 31/12/2017 20:45:50

Message posted by Colin21 on 31/12/2017 at 9:41pm
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Due to financial constraints the cars that I (and many others) buy tend to be over 8 years old and cost less than £2,000. I also tend to keep them for several years. The cars I buy normally don't do much less to the gallon than when they were new, and the fuel tank holds just as much fuel. Could I still expect the same from an EV? If not, an EV would be no use to me. I have not researched it, but I suspect that a set of batteries for an EV would cost more than I would pay for a car. Just like a battery drill.

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Message posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017 at 9:58pm
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I think electric cars are expensive luxuries. It was posted earlier that Tesla give an 8 year warranty on batteries, so going by what you buy your on your own.

I suspect the battery cost will come down supply and demand etc. But will still be expensive.

Iím afraid I canít afford 50k for a car. I tend to buy 4 year old cars and keep them for 4 to 6 years and I do approximately 20 to 23k miles a year.

Message posted by Francais on 31/12/2017 at 10:37pm
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Yep Wobbly Box, different strokes for different folks, I haven't owned my own car since 1985, I soon realised that owning a car was a bottomless pit of cash, and a bit of a mugs game if I am honest.

So it's been company cars for me for the last 32 years, it's a zero cost way of running a car.

Although I will have to rotate back to the world of reality, when retirement hits in around 10 years time, although when it does it will be a EV for me.

Message posted by Extremebiker0 on 31/12/2017 at 10:47pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017
Iím afraid I canít afford 50k for a car. I tend to buy 4 year old cars and keep them for 4 to 6 years and I do approximately 20 to 23k miles a year.


It's about 3p per mile for an EV (and that's all in including fuel, tax, servicing, tyres etc). If there ever was an EV that fitted your journey profile, with that kind of milage you would save a fortune.

Message posted by Colin21 on 31/12/2017 at 11:18pm
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No company cars for me I'm afraid. I couldn't fit either a bus, coach, or a 110 tonne diesel locomotive on my driveway, and those are I what I drove at work. I did have a small company van for a couple of years for a job I took after taking early retirement from the railway. I often did 600 miles in a day with that van though. It was a diesel.

I have always bought my own cars, which is why I drive what I do, now that I have retired. Still, I only do about 9,000 miles a year now.

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Message posted by Wobbly Box on 31/12/2017 at 11:31pm
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I must be a mug then for buying a car because Iím not fortunate enough to get a complany car.

Company car isnít zero, your taxed on it. All be it it is cheaper than buying and running a car but not free.

Message posted by Francais on 01/1/2018 at 12:25am
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Oh dear Wobbly Box, having a company car is all about smoke and mirrors, BIK tax works out a around £60 per month for a wage slave like me.

Of course that is easily offset when you are claiming back at 14pence per mile, when it only costs 9pence per mile to to make the car move.

I make around £25 cash per fill up, so that's around £125 per month in my sky rocket.

Deduct the BIK tax, leaves me around £60 up per month, what's not to like having about having a company car, private mileage is all paid for, as who can ever work out, what is business miles or private.

Don't get me wrong, but an EV for me, will be even a better deal!



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Message posted by Wobbly Box on 01/1/2018 at 1:14am
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My mate has a company car and his claim back is only 9p per business mile. Plus he recons heís paying 175 in extra tax.
Iíve never had a company car so canít really comment so if what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt it. Yes thatís a good deal and one not to be sniffed at.


Message posted by Mike3003 on 01/1/2018 at 9:25am
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 31/12/2017,

I soon realised that owning a car was a bottomless pit of cash, and a bit of a mugs game if I am honest.

So it's been company cars for me for the last 32 years, it's a zero cost way of running a car.



Francais, please have a real think before posting some of your comments.

By your reckoning ther are over 30 million mugs living in the UK because they own a car. Rather silly comment, people NEED their car, try living where I live without a car. People with mobility issues NEED their car, people who live in rural areas NEED their car. They are not mugs, it is a necessity not a luxury.

If you had not had a company car, I had one to by the way, you would not have been a mug and bought one! I think not.

The vast majority of people do not have the luxury of a company car, but I can assure those that havenít, it is not a zero cost way of running a car. But a good deal nonetheless, and I always thought myself very lucky, but would I rush out and by a Tesla, or any other EV now I am retired, no way. Of no use whatsoever.

Owning a car is a mugs game........Really! But you would be happy to fork out 30k + plus for a Tesla with huge depreciation, limited range, very limited towing capacity and poor build quality......Who is the mug!

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