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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Colin21 on 08/8/2016 at 10:51pm
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Very true, Navver.

Batteries have always been the problem with electric vehicles. They don't last for ever, and cost a fortune to replace. Fast charging any battery usually shortens its life quite considerably, and I can't see how any manufacturer can claim it doesn't until the batteries have been around a few years and been subjected to multiple fast charges.

Personally I think the hydrogen fuel cell is the future, rather than batteries, but they need to crack the storage problems with that. At least with hydrogen powered vehicles they can be refuelled in minutes, just like a petrol or diesel vehicle.

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Message posted by Francais on 08/8/2016 at 11:06pm
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Yep, Navver I agree that Hydrogen makes more sense, but they are even more expensive than battery EV's.

The future may see electric energy being transmitted like cell phone signals, but not in my life time.

Tesla aim to produce 500,000 cars per year, that will bring the price right down, with a battery that can give 215miles and Turbo Charge in 30 mins, and 8 years warranty to still perform at 80%.

So range down to around 170 miles, after a number of years, which is still good for used sales.

I do think Tesla have a winner on there hands with the Tesla 3, although I can't help thinking that a manufacturer in say China or India may do a copy, and mess it all up for them.


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Message posted by Colin21 on 09/8/2016 at 9:16am
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Once a network of hydrogen refuelling stations is established, and vehicles start to be mass produced, the price of vehicles will probably come right down.

I don't think there is much of a future for battery powered vehicles, except for short distance town work. Maybe taxis, or perhaps as short-term-hire vehicles in towns. Batteries do not like fast charging (I did used to work in the battery charging industry, although years back) and battery technology hasn't really advanced that much. Batteries are very heavy, very expensive, and can only hold so much energy, whatever type they are.

Personally, I wouldn't contemplate a vehicle that could only do 170 miles before re-charging was needed, and that figure would come right down if heating, lights and air-con were to be used. It would come down still further if an additional load, such as a trailer, was added. I have been known to do 500 miles in a day before now, although not so much recently. I did make a 300 mile journey last year though, towing my caravan back from Cornwall.

Yes, I agree, if China or India did a copy, that would be really bad news for Tesla.

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Message posted by navver on 09/8/2016 at 8:51pm
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They make a lot of sense as a 2nd car where long journeys are not usually required.

My ideal has always been to have a small generator on board to charge the battery occasionally when needed. Most cars will only do probably well under 50 miles a day so that is all that's needed in batteries. Longer journeys do crop up unexpectedly and the car needs to be able to cope.

I think the cost and fuel use of a small generator, occasionally used, could be effectively balanced by smaller batteries in the car. The batteries are very heavy and that is bad news for a town car with frequent stop starting.

Government is really pushing electric hard as an energy over gas and other fossil fuels. With renewables mostly producing electricity and nuclear being a good low CO2 option, it makes sense to move to electric energy with less reliance on fossil fuel.

Message posted by alan29 on 09/8/2016 at 9:13pm
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Batteries - filthy to manufacture and dispose of. Use electricity from power stations. Not at all green. Oh, and poor range etc.
Hydrogen - read an article a couple of months ago that calculated that with the present number of vehicles the entire road system would need upgrading with massive gullies to take the water they produce.
Stuck with present technology ..... until someone can come up with a system to harness the utter bull manure produced by politicians and converting it into a fuel.

Message posted by Colin21 on 09/8/2016 at 9:58pm
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Navver, as a second car for town use electric cars are ideal, but they are not best suited to long journeys.

Personally I don't think battery technology can advance much more, as energy storage is very difficult. There are many different types of batteries today, including lead-acid, ni-cad, etc. They each have advantages, but the one thing they have in common is that they are all limited in the amount of energy they can store.

There are two essential requirements for a vehicle used for long journeys. Firstly, the ability to do at least 300 miles without refuelling, and secondly the ability to refuel in minutes. I don't think that batteries will ever achieve either of those requirements, but I hope I am proved wrong.

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Message posted by Francais on 09/8/2016 at 10:15pm
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We're have you been Colin, the Tesla S already does over 300 miles, only just though!

As for charging, well half an hour, to give 80% range using the a Tesla Turbo Charger station, which can be done whilst you go for a cappuccino.

Message posted by bessie500 on 09/8/2016 at 10:55pm
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Tesla's are huge in Holland as taxi's, our head office is in Amsterdam and my European boss looked into getting a tesla as his next company car, as Holland has executive car tax for the likes of bmw and mercs etc he would save 24000 euros over his 4 year lease. So for a company car driver they are win win funny he ended up getting a f pace jag, the reason was he retires In 4 years he's already had eveverything else and he says he'll never be able to afford one once he retires.
As for charging stations the services on the m74 just before Hamilton Scotland have a bank of 5/6 tesla power chargers I saw them yesterday

I also looked at the tesla at car fest last week, if one came on my company car list I'm deffo getting one

Bessie

Message posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2016 at 7:43pm
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Teslas look great cars, I have seen them on TV and I have looked at their website. They are well out of my price-range, but I am still interested in their development.

However, whether or not their claims can be substantiated remains to be seen. Just as other manufacturers who claim that their cars do 65 miles to the gallon, this is under perfect test conditions. Under normal driving conditions, dark, raining, heating on, and radio playing, it probably doesn't do more than 55mpg. The same probably applies to the Tesla 3. Also, I have great reservations about battery life with repeated fast-charging. This usually dramatically reduces battery life.

Electric heating consumes a great deal of electricity, and I don't know of any other way of heating an electric car. If the heating is on, the range would be reduced considerably.

If Tesla can pull this off, and I hope they do, it will truly revolutionise electric cars. But we will only really know when they have been in regular use by the general public for at least 5 years. Theory and practice aren't always the same thing. Only time will tell.

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Message posted by Skoda Bob on 10/8/2016 at 8:16pm
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many like myself when we had the 70s fuel crisis, thought LPG was the way to go, some still convert, but there is hardly any refuelling points left, especially in the Scottish borders, where there is one left out of 7, and that closes at 5 pm and all weekend.
most of ones that are still open around the UK overcharge anyway

Message posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2016 at 8:23pm
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Don't think I would want to convert to LPG these days, but I ran a small light-haulage business late 70s and early 80s, and I had a luton and a flat-bed Ford Transit running on LPG. Running costs compared very favourably with both diesel and petrol, and there were plenty of filling stations back then. When no LPG was available where the trucks were, the driver could flick a switch and go back to petrol.

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Message posted by Francais on 11/8/2016 at 6:39am
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Never thought abou the heating in a Tesla, I wonder if it has a CampinGaz 907 cylinder in the boot, to power the heating system as that would save on wasting battery power!

I bet Tesla have not thought of that.

One things for sure, if you go camping with your Tesla you are defo going to need a pitch with EHU.

Message posted by moorlander999 on 11/8/2016 at 9:48am
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I had a Nissan Leaf for 6 months - it was a complete waste of space -
I only ever used it on short runs and with the heater / air con
Lights radio etc switched on the mileage figure was appalling

Never again !!

Message posted by Francais on 11/8/2016 at 10:58am
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Yep, just read that someone using the Tesla X to tow a small boat trailer found that soon after start the range dropped from 200 miles to 100 miles, so towing is not looking very promising at the moment.

My fear is that Tesla are going for the company car market in the UK, with the new 3 model which arrives in 2018, as the UK has the largest per capita of company cars in the whole of Europe.

The part of the firm I work for has around 80 cars all on lease, the company in total must be running at least 400 cars, most folk doing around 30k business miles each year, and claiming at 14ppm.

Even if the lease on the Tesla is slightly higher, the saving in fuel cost would be huge.

In fact I am at the bottom of the food chain and get a VW Golf BlueMotion, along with 50 of my colleagues, those further up the chain get VW Passats etc.

The 3 from what I have found out will be type approved for towing, but if range is down to 100 miles for me to tow my icle trailer down to the cote d Azur, it will take me an age to get there and back, 200 miles I could just about live with if Turbo Charging only takes 30 mins.

Will just have to see were the firm goes with this one, but as it stands the new a Tesla 3 would be perfectly suited to our company needs for work, but not so good for my personal needs.


Message posted by DaveCoaches on 11/8/2016 at 12:39pm
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Hydrogen cells may sound good, but when you look at the bigger picture, they are not that clever. It takes huge amounts of electricity to produce hydrogen.

The electricity comes from a dirty inefficient coal fired power station.

There is a lot of negativity about the emissions from the internal combustion engine, but the alternatives are no better, the pollution is simply created somewhere else, and usually more of it.

Message posted by Francais on 11/8/2016 at 3:20pm
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Yep but every man and his dog, is working towards better forms of renewables, and Nuclear seems to having some kind of come back, in so much as being the best of a bad bunch.

Fact is one day the oil wells will dry up, OK that may not be for a 100 years or more, so as a civilisation we need to be working on the alternatives now.


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