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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by navver on 11/8/2016 at 8:55pm
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For heating you can have a mains electric heater. This can switch on by time clock or probably mobile phone app nowadays, to have your car nice and warm ready to go. Not many fossil fuel cars can do that.

You will have mains electric connected for charging and the charger will have finished by early morning so won't overload the lead.

Keeping the pre-heated car warm won't use much power.


Message posted by Francais on 11/8/2016 at 9:11pm
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Funny you should mention that navver, reading about Tesla owners in Canada, they set the heater in the car, so it comes on in the morning, ready for when they get into the car for there morning commute.

So the car is all toasttie inside, and all the ice/snow melts on the outside.

And as you say, all done with a smart phone app, how brilliant is that.

Dam clever the Tesla, it uses 400v to power the heater, which in effect is no different to a single bar electric fire.

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Message posted by Colin21 on 11/8/2016 at 9:49pm
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Mains pre-heating is all very well but what about the journey? Cars are not particularly well insulated, so that nice toasty-warm pre-heated car turns into an ice-box within about 15 minutes of unplugging the mains.

Electricity is very good at producing motion, as in electric motors, but not very good at producing heat. Heat a car using battery power, and that will quickly drain a battery, drastically reducing the range of the vehicle. Petrol and diesel powered vehicles use waste heat from the engine and only use battery power to drive the blower, which is much more efficient as the electricity is quickly replaced by the engine-driven alternator.

As a short-journey city-car, battery driven cars are brilliant, but for longer journeys and for towing, they are a non-starter, as yet!

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Message posted by Francais on 11/8/2016 at 10:05pm
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I agree about the towing Colin, but not about the range, the Tesla is a definite game changer in that respect.

A minimum of 215 miles range, and then Turbo Charge in 30mins to add another 170 miles, so just under 400 miles with one charge along the way, should cover most daily journeys I would have thought.

This is why I think the Tesla Model 3 is going to be a big hit with company car fleets.

Also the used Tesla Model 3 market will be brilliant, with plenty of 3 years old models available for around 7k or there abouts come 2021

Post last edited on 11/08/2016 22:09:32

Message posted by Colin21 on 11/8/2016 at 10:21pm
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I agree about the company car situation Francais, but I am very doubtful about the range, particularly in very cold conditions. Using the lights, wipers, and particularly heating, will drastically reduce the range. I am inclined to think that the heater will draw as much power out of the batteries as the motors, possibly more. I am also inclined to think that fast-charging will drastically shorten the life of the batteries.

However, as I said before, I sincerely hope I am proved wrong. Only time will tell.

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Message posted by bessie500 on 11/8/2016 at 10:27pm
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Just check Comcar for the cc tax on both tesla models s and x at 20% they are coming out at around 1500 not bad for a 100k + car that will outrun anything on the road and seat 4/ 6 people in comfort, tesla say the model 3 will
Be available with a bigger battery pack as a option

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Message posted by bessie500 on 11/8/2016 at 10:34pm
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I'm pretty certain tesla will have thought about the heater and lights in their cars, surely they would draw the heat from the motors ?? And no doubt all the lights will be led which drawer very little power

Bessie

Message posted by Colin21 on 11/8/2016 at 10:55pm
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I too am sure that Tesla will have thought about the heater and lights, bessie500, but I doubt whether they would want to make their thoughts too well known. You are right about the lights probably being LEDs, which do draw considerably less power than filament bulbs, but electric heating is very inefficient. It takes a lot of power to produce very little heat.

On the other hand, electricity is very efficient at producing motion, so electric motors do not produce much waste heat, unlike diesel or petrol engines. Therefore there would not be much heat at all to be obtained from the motors. It would all have to come from the batteries.

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Message posted by Francais on 12/8/2016 at 7:21am
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Yep Bessie the BIK tax is significantly reduced for drivers of CC EV's, although in my scenario I would be out of pocket if the firm choose to issue me an EV.

As I currently do 30k cough, business miles per annum, with virtually no private mileage!, our business mileage rate is currently 14ppm, which as I am driving a VW Golf BlueMotion, which does an average of 60mpg, make for a nice little earner, as Arthur would say.

Fact is we don't get a choice of what CC we have, we just get what is given, end of.

Message posted by Francais on 12/8/2016 at 7:22pm
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Check out Jason Hughes Tesla, amazing bloke who I guess Tesla are not to fond of!

Message posted by navver on 12/8/2016 at 8:01pm
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One thing is for certain and that is we cannot go on as we are for ever. Fossil fuel cars will become fossils, probably well before the century is out.

At the moment electric and hydrogen are all we have. They will get better just like the early petrol and steam cars did. I can just hear you lot back in 1916 shaking your heads at these horseless carriages.

The other approach is we must stop or drastically reduce travelling. Even better than more efficient cleaner cars.

Message posted by Colin21 on 12/8/2016 at 8:45pm
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I agree that fossil-fuel powered cars are going to disappear at some point, Navver, but what will replace them? That is the problem.

We are going to have to change our lifestyles too, but this goes way beyond cars. The car has created its own problems, such as commuting to places that would be impractical by public transport, and children going to schools where their parents have to drive them to.

Then there is our hobby, caravanning. Many people tow their caravans hundreds of miles, which simply wouldn't be practical with a battery-powered vehicle. Electric cars are great. They are not the problem, its batteries. They are still very heavy, very expensive, and can only store so much energy. I don't know any battery type (yet) that can be recharged quickly, many times, and not be ruined by this. The very occasional fast-charge is ok, but not on a regular basis. Hybrids are the only viable way at the moment, but they use fossil-fuels too. Just not quite so much.

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Message posted by Francais on 14/8/2016 at 11:50am
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I got my first company car back in 1985, and have never owned my own car since, back then it was a petrol Vauxhall Cavalier, then in the 1990's most CC went over to diesel, no turbo back then just a 2lt lump, and a very noisy lump at that, especially the clatter on start up.

As we got into the 2000's Diesels became a lot more refined, and now are almost as quiet as my first petrol CC.

I never for one moment envisaged that I would ever be driving an all electric CC during my working lifetime.

My current CC is due for change 2017, so it's almost a given that we will be with the Diesel VW Golf again, but come 2019 I would bet my pension that we will be driving the Tesla 3, the timing is about as perfect as it can get.

Edit = Wow, just had a look and Tesla 3 pre-orders have hit over 400,000 units, that means even if the firm I work for ordered today, they would not see the cars until at least 2020 and probably beyond.

I think the le time for VW is under 12 weeks, which is about as far ahead as our car dept works, the Tesla thing would just blow there minds, no way could they plan 4 or 5 years down the line.

Post last edited on 14/08/2016 12:12:21

Message posted by Colin21 on 14/8/2016 at 10:09pm
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Only company vehicles I have ever had were a small diesel van, and before that a 53 seater coach!

My Volvo tow-car is a diesel, and its 16 years old. It is powered by a 2.5 litre turbo-diesel which is not much noisier than the petrol version, but I remember early diesel cars that rattled like a pre-war truck! No wonder not many people bought them.

I would really like to see a successful electric car, but until they crack the battery problem I think they will be confined to city-cars. Still, I suppose they have come a long way since the era of milk-floats!

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Message posted by Francais on 14/8/2016 at 10:20pm
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Yep, Colin but Tesla have gone way beyond city cars, with the range of their models, along with Turbocharging in less than an hour.

Anyone who has bought a Nissan Leaf will be kicking them selves for doing so, they should have waited for the Tesla Model 3 to come along!

Message posted by Colin21 on 14/8/2016 at 10:27pm
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I sincerely hope you are right, Francais, but I still have reservations about that Turbo-charging. My past experience shows that repeated rapid-charging destroys batteries quite quickly, unless it is only very, very occasionally. I feel that only time will tell.

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