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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Francais on 13/8/2018 at 7:24pm
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Yep, taking the battery out of a BEV and replacing it with a new one, is a quick and easy job, in fact Tesla proved this with an automatic station that replaced the battery pack in around 5 minutes.

Of course the idea of that was to replace a flat battery, with a fully charged battery, nothing to do with worn out batteries.

The whole battery thing could be an issue with a ten year old BEV, somthing the industry needs to address.

No point in buying a ten year old BEV for £5k, if you need to replace the battery at current day cost, say £20k!

Battery packs will have be available for under £3k me thinks.

Message posted by Colin21 on 13/8/2018 at 11:04pm
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Battery packs for under £3k? I don't usually pay £3k for a car! My Volvo didn't cost me that.

Regarding changing the batteries, I think how long it takes would depend on the car. I have no experience whatsoever of Teslas, but I have heard that on some BEVs, it takes hours to change the batteries.

The nearest equivalent to a BEV's battery in a fossil-fuel car is the petrol/diesel tank, which is where the vehicle's energy stored. A fuel tank on an ordinary car holds just as much energy at 18 years old as it did the day it rolled off the production line. The same cannot be said of a BEV. How much energy that will be able to store at 18 years old is subject to speculation. I am inclined to think that on an 18 year old BEV the batteries will have been changed at least once, if not twice. Possibly even more, who knows. I can't see this being viable in the mass market, and it is hardly "green". The materials used in the production of an EV's batteries are highly polluting.

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Message posted by bessie500 on 13/8/2018 at 11:18pm
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It’s all guess work at the mo, who knows how long the batteries will last ? They might still be ok at 10 years, in 10 years time you might be able to get cheap aftermarket batteries or even recon ones like you can buy recon engines.
As for car cost Colin your old Volvo would cost more than 30k if it was new now.
As with all lumps of metal they all deprecate some just do it faster than others.

Bessie

Message posted by Colin21 on 13/8/2018 at 11:45pm
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I think my Volvo cost more than £30k back in 2000 when it was built Bessie. I know they weren't cheap. What it's worth now depends on who you talk to. Somewhere between £500 and £1,500 from what I have heard.

I am currently looking for a replacement vehicle, and my maximum budget is £2,500. No way I could afford a set of EV batteries, so if an EV was my only option, I would be forced to give up driving. Like many others I suspect. I would love an EV, but for the moment they are simply not viable, especially on my kind of budget, and I can't see this changing any time soon. However, there are plenty of quite viable fossil-fuel cars around, even for less than £1,000.

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Message posted by Francais on 14/8/2018 at 6:37am
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The big change will come when the fleets start moving over to electric, as most of the used 3 year old cars on the market are ex fleet.

Then you have that little number fudge, when large volumes of new cars get registered, and moved around the country to end up on the forcorts with just a couple of k miles on the clock.

Don't get me wrong, the fleets are not about to move over to BEV's anytime soon, as they are only just starting to migrate from diesel to petrol, and even that change is only a trickle.

All that we are seeing now is the beginning of the end for the fossil car, and who knows when the end will be, I am guessing upto 50 years away.

Although the transition from horse and cart was somewhat quicker!




Message posted by blueexpo97 on 14/8/2018 at 7:29am
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And you remember that like it was yesterday.

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Message posted by Mike3003 on 14/8/2018 at 7:44am
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......... number fudge!??😳

Message posted by Mike3003 on 14/8/2018 at 7:52am
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At least the “up to 50 years” is a near realistic prediction. I think at least 50 years a little more accurate.

But as Colin said, EVs are hardly a good environmentaly friendly alternative.

Message posted by ST1100 on 14/8/2018 at 9:09am
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The thing I would like to know is why the Tesla cars so expensive for their services?

I put a link on quite a while ago showing the service cost of them.. I drive a Lexus Hybrid which has both a big petrol engine and the electric side so would have thought the Tesla would have been a lot cheaper .. but they are actually quite a bit more expensive.

Not a lot of difference between the mileage between services .. 10,000 minor and 20,000 major on Lexus and 12,500 minor and 25,000 major on Tesla

Message posted by daveyjp on 14/8/2018 at 10:07am
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Quote: Originally posted by ST1100 on 14/8/2018
The thing I would like to know is why the Tesla cars so expensive for their services?

I put a link on quite a while ago showing the service cost of them.. I drive a Lexus Hybrid which has both a big petrol engine and the electric side so would have thought the Tesla would have been a lot cheaper .. but they are actually quite a bit more expensive.

Not a lot of difference between the mileage between services .. 10,000 minor and 20,000 major on Lexus and 12,500 minor and 25,000 major on Tesla



It has always been the case that service prices of vehicles are based on how much the original car costs, and not the actual cost of materials and time taken for a service!

Message posted by Colin21 on 14/8/2018 at 3:55pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 14/8/2018
The big change will come when the fleets start moving over to electric, as most of the used 3 year old cars on the market are ex fleet.

Then you have that little number fudge, when large volumes of new cars get registered, and moved around the country to end up on the forcorts with just a couple of k miles on the clock.

Don't get me wrong, the fleets are not about to move over to BEV's anytime soon, as they are only just starting to migrate from diesel to petrol, and even that change is only a trickle.

All that we are seeing now is the beginning of the end for the fossil car, and who knows when the end will be, I am guessing upto 50 years away.

Although the transition from horse and cart was somewhat quicker!







I think that 50 years is quite a reasonable assumption. Based on the greatly extended life of cars today, many of those built in 2040 will probably still be around in 2060 or after. Gone are the days of 10 years being the maximum expected life of a car. I still remember my first 4-wheeled car, a 1957 Ford Anglia. 12 years old when I got rid of it, and the bodywork was mainly rust and filler by then. By contrast, my 18 year old Volvo is showing no sign of rust at all, and still runs well after 177,000 miles.

Having said that though, I think the killer-factor for BEVs will be the batteries. I can see the cars lasting 20 years plus, but the batteries only lasting 5 to 6 years.

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Message posted by daveyjp on 14/8/2018 at 6:24pm
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The manufacturer of any consumer product cannot survive by producing products which last too long. As you say rust was great for car manufacturers, this issue has now largely gone.

However the increasing use of technology will allow manufacturers to determine just how long a car can be run for. Software updates etc won't be possible on older vehicles without major expenditure so owners won't do it and will replace.

Ironically Tesla is a case in point. Its a computer on wheels. Imagine trying to run one using a 20 year old PC. Impossible.

DPFs etc on diesels are already reducing their operational life. Not many will want to spend £1,000+ on a new DPF on a 10-15 year old vehicle.

A friend had really good Volvo about 19 years old. It started stalling and cutting out. It was an ECU fault which couldn't be repaired as it was obsolete.

Message posted by Colin21 on 14/8/2018 at 7:56pm
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Technology can always be hacked. If there is money to be made, someone will come up with a way to get into it.

Then of course there are always vehicle breakers. There is quite an extensive network of car breakers on the internet, and most owners of older vehicles know of it.

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Message posted by bessie500 on 15/8/2018 at 7:35am
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Having said that though, I think the killer-factor for BEVs will be the batteries. I can see the cars lasting 20 years plus, but the batteries only lasting 5 to 6 years.



The time period we’re taking about now I reckon battery packs will be cheap as chips, second hand Tesla batteries will probably be sold refurbed and the Chinese will probably copy them as they do with every after market car part.

In 20 years time cars will probably have solar panels built into the keeping everything topped up

Bessie

Message posted by Mike3003 on 15/8/2018 at 9:08am
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Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 15/8/2018




The time period we’re taking about now I reckon battery packs will be cheap as chips, second hand Tesla batteries will probably be sold refurbed and the Chinese will probably copy them as they do with every after market car part.

In 20 years time cars will probably have solar panels built into the keeping everything topped up

Bessie



Copied Chinese Lithium batteries! That sounds like a multitude of disasters waiting to happen.

I am a real fan of Solar Panels for leisure vehicles, they are great for topping up a battery to run a few LEDs and a water pump, but SP technology has a long, long way to go before it is capable of running a car with a panel on the roof. We also have some long, sunless winters too.

Message posted by Wobbly Box on 15/8/2018 at 6:18pm
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This is interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45179722


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