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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Francais on 14/8/2016 at 10:51pm
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Tesla battery has 8 year warranty, so I would not be concerned about Turbocharging, Tesla have obviously done there home work.

Have a look at some of the YouTube stuff, were hackers have stripped bear the Tesla motor and inverter system, the Tesla drive train is a serious bit of kit, so much so that Mercedes are using the Tesla motor in their EV cars.

Tesla have definitely got the edge on EV, with a little help from Panasonic for the battery cells.

Message posted by DaveCoaches on 15/8/2016 at 7:48am
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 11/8/2016
Yep but every man and his dog, is working towards better forms of renewables, and Nuclear seems to having some kind of come back, in so much as being the best of a bad bunch.

Fact is one day the oil wells will dry up, OK that may not be for a 100 years or more, so as a civilisation we need to be working on the alternatives now.



Nuclear power was in reality a by product of producing plutonium for the nuclear arms race in the Cold War. The reason it's having a come back is because our relationship with Moscow is pretty rocky.

Do we really want to get into another Cold War with Russia? What else are we going to do with our spent fuel rods? Sell them to Kim Jung Un?

Makes you wonder why the Chinese are so keen to get involved with Hinkley with EDF doesn't it?

We caravanners have proven solar power can be made to work. As does wind and hydroelectric, but unfortunately everyone loves these as long as they can't actually see or hear them.

While we all want to see sustainable energy, whenever a sustainable power station is proposed, locals object.


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Message posted by Francais on 15/8/2016 at 3:33pm
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I find it quite odd that a company just 13 years old has managed to bring to market a far better EV, than VAG, BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, GM, Honda, to name but a few.

In fact already Nissan Leaf sales have ground to a halt, following the announcement of the Tesla Model 3.

Message posted by Opensauce on 15/8/2016 at 6:56pm
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Difference between a visionary & a business man innit?

A visionary sees things how they could be & tries to make it so. A business man simply responds to market forces.

Message posted by Francais on 15/8/2016 at 7:37pm
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I guess so Opensauce, I do feel that the Tesla Model 3 is indeed history in the making.

Message posted by Opensauce on 16/8/2016 at 8:24am
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It's all about miniaturising the batteries. Once they can store enough power to run the car for 400miles & batteries can be fully charged at roadside points as quickly as one can fill a fuel tank now then they will have cracked it.

But consider this. As Scotty said in Star Trek. "Ya canna change the laws of physics Capt'n"

10 gallons of petrol contains enough energy released slowly to run a car for 400miles. However if you release that energy all at once by dropping a match into 10 gallons of petrol you will get an awfully big bang.

And so it is with batteries. There are safety issues with a small battery containing that much energy & also safety issues recharging a battery with that much energy very quickly.

Message posted by Derbian on 16/8/2016 at 10:02am
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Not driven the Tesla as it isn't available yet but I have driven 3 or 4 Electric Cars as trials for my ex companies fleet. OK for town driving but many of the comments on here about the differences between claimed range and actual range are absolutley true especially in winter.

Turbocharging sounds good but it needs a massive investment in infrastructure first. It's OK saying you can charge up in 30 minutes until you arrive at a service station and find that all the charging points are already occupied and the drivers have gone for a meal/holding a meeting etc which means the 30 minutes turn into an hour.

Message posted by Francais on 16/8/2016 at 11:54am
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Yep, could be a problem if you rock up to a Turbocharging spot, to find another 10 Tesla owners waiting to use the unit.

In fairness to Tesla, they do make you aware of the status of the Turbocharger before you get there, although they will need to ramp up the number of Turbochargers.

Message posted by Derbian on 16/8/2016 at 1:03pm
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With an ICE I can plan my journey and know I can refuel at a set point.   With electric I've had to do a 10 mile detour off route to find a charging point.   It will mean massive investment to produce the number of charging points needed.   Look at the throughput on a busy filling station and then think that it will take 30 minutes to refuel instead of 5. Parking alone will be a problem

Also think that if significant numbers of people adopt electric vehicles governments will have to introduce some way of charging (Tax) to make up for the loss of revenue on Petrol and Diesel

Message posted by Francais on 16/8/2016 at 3:43pm
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Yep, I guess it was much the same when petrol stations were introduced, plenty of places to get some oats for your horse, but few places to tank up your Model T.

In this modern age, they should be able to embed a transponder in the car, and tax you by the mile, that could replace the road tax and revenue lost at the pumps, if and when EV's start to out number ICE vehicles.

Norway are already set to ban the registering of new ICE vehicles from 2025.

Post last edited on 16/08/2016 15:47:13

Message posted by Colin21 on 16/8/2016 at 9:41pm
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Even if Norway do ban registering new ICE vehicles, they will still be around for many years to come. My Volvo tow-car is 16 years old and still going strong. The road tax legislation in this country at present actually encourages me to keep it going. Because it pre-dates the emissions based tax rates, it is cheaper to tax than an equivalent sized newer vehicle, whereas if it were under 1500cc the reverse would be true.

I can't see battery-electric cars outnumbering ICE vehicles any time soon, unless people are prepared to drastically change their lifestyles, and in the main most people are very reluctant to do that.

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Message posted by Francais on 16/8/2016 at 9:50pm
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I wonder how many of the 400,000 pre-orders for the Tesla Model 3 have been placed by people here in the UK.

What I think we will see Colin, is the number of new EV's being ordered each year will soon supass that of ICE cars being ordered, in not to many years time.

Message posted by Grampian91 on 16/8/2016 at 11:11pm
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You seem to praise Tesla a lot. You certainly give them way more credit than i would.

Comparing Tesla to Apple? Where did Apple get a lot of its ideas from? Ask Commodore fan boys.

Tesla received a little help from Panasonic? Im pretty sure Panasonic know WAY more than Tesla about batteries.
Especially as the batteries in the Tesla were designed and manufactured by Panasonic.

Has Tesla really broke new ground or just done a deal to rebadge panasonic items or build them inhouse under some secret licence?

Could they cope without all the subsidies they receive?

$4.9 billion? And employs 13,000 people?

Share prices increasing even though the companies lose money every year.

Somethings got to give...



EDIT: Just had a read up on the battery cost cutting.

Seems they are taking the 18650 cells which are the same as your laptop etc and removing each cells battery protection circuit that prevents them under/over charging and catching fire. And also stripping back as much of the casing as possible.

Not exactly a technical milestone in battery technology.

A bit like me saying i can make your car faster and use less fuel. I simply take all your interior out and replace the drivers seat with a plastic garden chair, then throw away anything that drains power or not essential to driving.
It will be faster and use less fuel, but you can no longer give passengers a lift unless they supply their own garden chair. You wont be able to go out at night because bulbs add weight and consume power which uses more fuel or drains the battery if i removed the alternator.


400,000 pre-orders?   I wonder how many will cancel when they find subsidies will get removed after they sell 200,000 cars?

You can a virtually as new Nissan Leaf for little money it seems. Not the easiest thing to sell.



Post last edited on 16/08/2016 23:46:54

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Post 1997 licence holder?

Max tow weight = Cars gross laden weight + Caravans gross laden weight.

These 2 figures must not exceed 3500kg. And the Caravans gross laden weight must not exceed the cars UNLADEN weight.

Unless the manufacturer has set a lower limit.

Message posted by Francais on 17/8/2016 at 8:59am
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Well it's nice to add some balance, and I don't disagree with you Grampian1.

I work in the consumer electronics industry, and I often do not like what I see, we have product waiting to be realised in 2020, but like with all electronic goods, technology is held back on purpose.

This is why now Nissan have improved the battery on the Leaf, to give more range, funny how they can do that now, after Tesla are saying that the Tesla Model 3, will do double the range of the Leaf.

Tesla are just as bad, they will sell you a car that can do say 250 miles, then for an extra $10,000 they will extend the range to 300 miles with an over the air software download.

The motor for the Tesla is not that much different, from what was invented over 100 years ago, so there is not much of a leap in technology in that respect.

The thing with the Tesla 3 is that it will be on the road late 2017, it will have double the range of it's nearest competitor and it can tow, what it can tow remains to be seen.

If nothing else the Tesla Model 3 will make other E.V. car manufacturers up there game.

Yep the subsidy of 7,500 will go quickly, in the U.S. not sure if the same rule applies here in the U.K. the current rate is around 5000 towards your E.V.

What is quite refreshing though is that Tesla sell direct to the end user, rather than through dealers, which I understand is not going down to well with the established dealer networks both here and in the U.S.

When I used to source my company car's, when working for small companies, I would get a quote through a main dealership, getting 10% of the list price or more was a given, and then they would bend for another 10% of the value in free options, and that was just for starters.

I then would present the quote to the leasing company, who would then buy through their preferred dealer, this enabled me to get a better car, than the leasing company first offered, all a bit of a faff but it had to be done.

The dealer's I dealt would often say, that they would re-coup thier margin through the private customers, fact is they were never going to get an order from me in the first place, so no harm done.

Apart from I could never return to that dealer again!




Post last edited on 17/08/2016 09:04:25

Message posted by Colin21 on 17/8/2016 at 8:46pm
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What I want to know is, what has been done to battery technology to prevent them being damaged by repeated boost charging. Having been involved at one time with battery charging systems, the one thing I can remember was that repeated rapid-charging ruins batteries, or at least severely shortens their lives. What has been done to prevent this? Certainly nothing that I have heard of.

I can't help but be very sceptical of Tesla's claims, although I will be delighted if they prove to be fact. I will reserve my judgement until the Tesla 3 has been on the market for 5 years or more.

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Message posted by Francais on 17/8/2016 at 9:09pm
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Well the Tesla Model S was first on the road from 2012, plenty of those around some with over 100k miles on the clock.

The drive train is pretty much the same, as what will be used on the Tesla Model 3.

The fast Turbocharging seems to have little effect on the battery, with older models charging beyond 80% anything below that and the 8 year warranty kicks in.

Some early models did suffer motor issues, obviously resolved under warranty, and there seems to be no problems with later motors.

Plenty of folk have fitted towbars to their Model S, even though as far as I am aware the Model S has never been type approved for having a tow bar fitted.

The Model 3 will be tow bar type approved, it has been said.

I am not sure how Tesla have got around the problems related to fast charging, but they have.

I personally feel that E.V. technology has been held back on purpose, it surely must be a big concern for the oil producers.



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