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Subject Topic: Tesla 3 towing?
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Message posted by Francais05/11/2018 at 6:58pm
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Yep, before BEV's are up to the job, it looks like tugs of the future are going to be petrol, which I guess is a backward step in terms of fuel consumption.

The powers that be, will obviously ensure that the cost of diesel makes it even less economical than running a petrol tug.

Anyone currently owning a diesel, will have a job to give it away in the coming years, all that development of the Diesel engine almost seem to have gone to waste.

I have seen reports of new petrol engines on there way, using twin electric turbos, and a fuel injection systems that gives almost the same mpg as the equivalent diesel, so maybe petrol is going to be the hero.

Message posted by LlaniDavis05/11/2018 at 10:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 05/11/2018
Anyone currently owning a diesel, will have a job to give it away in the coming years, all that development of the Diesel engine almost seem to have gone to waste.



You'd better come to Mid Wales and explain to the farmers and agricultural contractors how they are going to have any transport or equipmemt in the future if you think that is correct!


Message posted by Colin2105/11/2018 at 10:54pm
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Strange, but new or nearly new diesel cars seem to be losing their value quite quickly, but older ones are rising in price. Recently I was looking for an older (2003 to 2010) car, and the sort of vehicle I was looking for was fetching quite a bit more than two years ago. Loads of them on the road, but very few for sale and those that were, very expensive.

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Message posted by bessie50005/11/2018 at 11:39pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 05/11/2018
Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 05/11/2018
Anyone currently owning a diesel, will have a job to give it away in the coming years, all that development of the Diesel engine almost seem to have gone to waste.



You'd better come to Mid Wales and explain to the farmers and agricultural contractors how they are going to have any transport or equipmemt in the future if you think that is correct!


Trucks are fine as currently no alternative. Cars are plummeting just been looking at a few now, 2015 s max, 2015 crv and 2015 Volvo XC60 r design from 12k all with low miles

Bessie


Message posted by Mike300315/11/2018 at 8:25am
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A recent Car Buyer report says that the entry level, 210 mile range, Tesla 3 is likely to be around the £40k mark in the UK.

Massive increase from £27k me thinks. It seems weird when a car manufacturer says deposits are being taken for UK cars.........When know one seems to know how much it will cost! 😳

Anyone heard any different

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Message posted by 664DaveS15/11/2018 at 9:10am
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Hyundai and Kia BEVs are good,especialy if they have the same warranties as their petrol/diesel cars!

Saw a road test of Jaguar I Pace on 5th gear,they liked it but its expensive! About £20k more than a diesel at the moment.
Think I would have a hybrid at the moment.

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Message posted by Colin2115/11/2018 at 1:32pm
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I am still curious about the second hand market. Take a look at the cars on the road today, and there are huge numbers of cars running about that are 8+ years old, and there are many of similar age in car sales lots. Huge numbers of people must therefore still be buying cars of that age, I'm one of them, and curiously although the price of nearly new diesel cars is dropping, and sales of new diesels have fallen, prices of older diesel cars appear to be rising. Last summer I was looking again at a replacement car, as I had done the previous year, and this became apparent to me. I eventually found what I was looking for, but I paid more for it than I would have done the year before. They were much harder to find for sale though, as it appears people are hanging on to them.

Where does this leave EVs? People who buy older cars are not looking at EVs, and probably won't for many years to come. In 10 years time I can see the roads being populated by wealthier people and those with company cars driving EVs, and the not so well off driving old diesels. Will a 10 year old EV ever be a viable option as 10 year old diesels currently are?

Of course the government could simply ban or price out old diesels, but that would mean that less well off people would have to give up driving. The current cost of a set of batteries for an EV is about twice what I would pay for a car!


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Message posted by 664DaveS15/11/2018 at 6:23pm
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Hyundai Kona EV, 259 miles range and costs £30k. Bit cheaper than Tesla!
Don't know if it can tow!
Happy with our diesels!

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Message posted by Francais15/11/2018 at 6:54pm
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Yep, and the Kia Niro is better than the Hyundai on range at over 300 miles just (64kwh battery) and no doubt cheaper, although type aproved for towing not known.

The Tesla M3 would still be the better car though at 320 mile range, better battery tech, and tech in general, not to mention the aluminium body, and best crash safety rating of any car in the world!.

In fact the Tesla puts Volvo cars to shame on safety.

Post last edited on 15/11/2018 19:00:37

Message posted by Colin2115/11/2018 at 7:07pm
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But will any EV with viable batteries ever be on the market for £2,500? Lots of people don't spend even that much on a car. You can still buy a perfectly viable fossil-fuel car for £800. Doesn't a set of EV batteries currently cost around £5,000? That sort of cost would simply rule out motoring for a huge number of people.

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Message posted by bessie50015/11/2018 at 8:15pm
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Saw a road test of Jaguar I Pace on 5th gear,they liked it but its expensive! About £20k more than a diesel at the moment.
Think I would have a hybrid at the moment.


I saw a ipace on the m60 yesterday what a stunning car that is.

Bessie

Message posted by Francais15/11/2018 at 9:15pm
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Noticed recently that the gap between petrol and diesel price is growing, not so long back diesel and petrol was around the same price.

Obviously this is being done, in order to make the efficiency that diesels offer, to become pointless as the cost of petrol being much cheaper offsets the efficiency of diesel.

Anyone buying a diesel today, needs there bumps feeling, unless they can buy the oil burner for next to nowt.

It's only a matter of time now, before petrol cars can offer the same mpg as a diesel, that will be game over for the diesel engine as we know it.

Message posted by Colin2115/11/2018 at 9:54pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 15/11/2018

Anyone buying a diesel today, needs there bumps feeling, unless they can buy the oil burner for next to nowt.

It's only a matter of time now, before petrol cars can offer the same mpg as a diesel, that will be game over for the diesel engine as we know it.



Why then is the price of older diesels rising? Petrols offering the same mpg as diesels? Certainly not the case for older diesels. My old Volvo did around 38-40 mpg around town, but the petrol version did 25 mpg at best. Petrol engines have a long way to go to equal the mpg of diesels, and they would need to get very close for the difference in price of the fuels to be a real factor.

Game over for the diesel engine as we know it? Vaguely possible if you are only talking about cars, but what about all the other applications of the diesel engine for which no viable alternative exists? Farm machinery, back-up generators, trucks, bulldozers, cranes and other plant, railway locomotives, and ships.

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Message posted by seanfdh15/11/2018 at 10:08pm
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If fuel was sold by mass rather than volume (which it should be) the greater economy of diesel engines vanishes. Diesels do more mpg because there's more carbon in a gallon of diesel than there is in a gallon of petrol.

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Message posted by Colin2115/11/2018 at 10:18pm
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Quote: Originally posted by seanfdh on 15/11/2018
If fuel was sold by mass rather than volume (which it should be) the greater economy of diesel engines vanishes. Diesels do more mpg because there's more carbon in a gallon of diesel than there is in a gallon of petrol.



That may be theoretically true, but tank capacity is in gallons (or litres).

Based on the mpg on my old Volvo, diesel would need to rise to £2 a litre for the price per mile to be the same as a petrol car running on fuel at £1.32 a litre.

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Message posted by daveyjp16/11/2018 at 9:49am
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 15/11/2018
Noticed recently that the gap between petrol and diesel price is growing, not so long back diesel and petrol was around the same price.

Obviously this is being done, in order to make the efficiency that diesels offer, to become pointless as the cost of petrol being much cheaper offsets the efficiency of diesel.

Anyone buying a diesel today, needs there bumps feeling, unless they can buy the oil burner for next to nowt.

It's only a matter of time now, before petrol cars can offer the same mpg as a diesel, that will be game over for the diesel engine as we know it.



In winter diesel is also used as heating oil - the increase in demand for the raw material leads to an increase at the pump.

This is not a recent issue. I last owned a diesel almost 10 years ago and back then diesel was more expensive than petrol in winter.


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