Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Contact Us

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice
Share   Tweet This!  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: Are electric cars the future
Page:  1  ....  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  ....  21 Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by Colin2128/12/2021 at 5:49pm
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
Joined: 05/11/2013
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Colin21
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5245

Site Reviews Total: 14
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by Ancient Uncle on 28/12/2021
Exactly, Colin.
I know someone who can not afford much in the way of a car, but needs one. So she buys an old banger for £2k-£3k and just runs it until it gives up. One of them kept going for 4years. Try that with BEV.
I think we will need a different concept. Not owning a car but perhaps group ownership. After all, ours now spends days sitting on the driveway doing nothing. Mostly used these days for towing and the occasional journey we can not do by bus.



That is my usual price range too, I certainly couldn't afford much more. There are clearly others who don't go that high, as my Volvo sold for under £1,000 two and a half years ago. It is now very nearly 22 years old and is still on the road. I looked up its registration a couple of weeks back and it had just been MOTd again. In the year after I sold it the new owner did 35,000 miles with it according to the DVLA website. Will a 21 year old BEV still do that unless it has recently had its batteries renewed, and what would it cost to buy if it had?

I use my car mainly for various volunteering activities, which I would have to give up if I didn't have a car, as the places I go are often very difficult to get to without one. One of them I tried a few years ago just out of curiosity. It took two and a half hours, by three trains and a bus! By car I can do it in 25 minutes.

Like you I believe we will need to have a very different concept. Not owning a car but joining a "car club" like some cities are already trialling. If you need a car you just go to the nearest pick-up point, insert your card, get in and drive to where you want to go. When you get there you leave it at the nearest pick-up point for someone else to use. That system lends itself very readily to EV use as the cars are plugged in when they are returned. Obviously that system would not be suitable for some people, but for a great many it would be.

If you work it out, the average privately owned car spends 95% of its life parked. In my case these days it's probably more like 99%. Even when I go away with my caravan it does maybe 2 - 3 hours towing to the site then often doesn't move again until the following day or maybe longer, depending on where I am staying. At home it often doesn't move at all for days.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 28/12/2021 at 6:04pm
Outfit:  Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2     Location:  Northamptonshire
Joined: 28/4/2009
View tdrees's Profile View Profile   Reply to tdrees Reply   Quote tdrees Quote  
tdrees
Avatar
Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   138

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 28/12/2021
Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 28/12/2021
I agree that if you tow 400 miles a day over 3 days, and only stop every 200 miles (4.5 hours) then an EV tow car is not for you. If on the other hand you are prepared to stop every 2 1/4 hours for 25 mins or so, the latest generation of 800v based EVs would make the same trip without much additional time at all. For me, the key thing is that new EVs can tow well and can tow reasonable distance with just a little change in mindset and behaviour.
Is it worth that change in mindset? Well that depends on what you want out of your car both solo and towing, and whether or not having an EV is important to you.
For me personally, the minor inconvenience of the shortened range when towing, is more than made up for by the EV towing experience and the Solo driving that the EV provides when both on site and at home. I have a second tow car that can (and previously has) done all my trips on just one refuel stop, but I have stopped using it and choose to use the EV because the total package experience is sooo much better. But itís a personal choice.



It is only a personal choice if you have money. For many people if BEVs really are the future, which I personally am yet to be convinced of, then the choice is going to be sticking with what they already have or giving up driving. That is certainly what it will probably be for me and many others like me, and there are a lot more of them than some people realise. Witness the number of 10+ years old cars on the road today.

The big difference when talking about range is that a 20 year old petrol or diesel car will do roughly the same distance on a tankful as it did when it was new, but the same can't be said for BEVs. Unless it has had its batteries replaced recently, a 15 year old BEV probably won't do half the mileage between charges that it did when it was new. It is all very well talking about range when discussing new cars, but what about all those who can only afford 10+ year old cars? Range is just as important for them too. If I have to give up my car because I can no longer afford one it won't be more than a big inconvenience because I am retired, but many people who are currently driving 10+ year old cars are key workers on low incomes. What happens to them?




There is zero evidence to suggest that a 15 year old BEV built in the last 5 years will lose half its range at age 15. 8-10% yes. Half? No.
There is also no reason that in 15 years it wonít be possible to by a 2nd hand ICE car for those that really want to have one for whatever reason. EVs will come down in price, both new and used, just as ICE cars have.

It goes without saying that choice is limited by funds. I was trying to point out that current technology allows for long distance caravan towing with little deviation from that which we can enjoy today using ICE cars. The personal choice aspect is now one which (if funds are available) will support either drive train (ICE or electric).

Message posted by Colin2128/12/2021 at 9:47pm
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
Joined: 05/11/2013
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Colin21
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5245

Site Reviews Total: 14
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 28/12/2021

There is zero evidence to suggest that a 15 year old BEV built in the last 5 years will lose half its range at age 15. 8-10% yes. Half? No.
There is also no reason that in 15 years it wonít be possible to by a 2nd hand ICE car for those that really want to have one for whatever reason. EVs will come down in price, both new and used, just as ICE cars have.

It goes without saying that choice is limited by funds. I was trying to point out that current technology allows for long distance caravan towing with little deviation from that which we can enjoy today using ICE cars. The personal choice aspect is now one which (if funds are available) will support either drive train (ICE or electric).



I'm not sure there is any evidence for 8-10% either. Most of the things I have seen either say that they will need replacing long before 15 years or that they will lose much more than 10% of their capacity. In any case, who would buy an EV knowing that the batteries will need replacing soon. I know I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned the only ones worth considering will be those whose batteries have already been replaced recently, and they will be too expensive for me.

I suppose it will depend on many things, such as how many miles the car has done, and how well the batteries have been looked after. How many fast-charges they have had will probably come into it too. I just think there are too many unknowns, and the older the car the more unknowns there will be.

Don't get the idea that I don't like EVs because I would have one like a shot, but it would have to be new or very nearly new, and there's no way I could afford that.



-------------
Best Regards,
Colin

Message posted by navver28/12/2021 at 9:50pm
Outfit:  Mondeo     Location:  West country
Joined: 23/8/2008
View navver's Profile View Profile   Reply to navver Reply   Quote navver Quote  
navver
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4374

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I'd be very interested to know what the caravan manufacturers are thinking about. As things stand, their industry is going to be severely adversely affected.

They have a problem with range limitation unless they convert to folding caravans to reduce the wind resistance. Basic towing of a folded caravan would have very little impact on range of an EV.

Also, their current business model of poor build quality reducing lifespan and marketing strategy with graphics etc. making a van appear dated after 3 years is not sustainable. Caravans need to be built to last many years to reduce the high carbon content embodied in them when initially built.

Changing to folding caravans will increase their longevity considerably as it will keep the sun out avoiding damage to trim and upholstery etc, also a folded GRP roof covering everything will keep damp out very successfully.

Caravans are a very good holiday option as they have much less impact upon the area than say holiday cottages etc

Message posted by Colin2128/12/2021 at 10:24pm
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
Joined: 05/11/2013
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Colin21
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5245

Site Reviews Total: 14
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Caravans have certainly got a lot heavier over the years, and I don't think build quality is as good as it once was. My caravan is now 30 years old but from what I keep hearing I don't think today's models will last anything like that long. I wouldn't say that my caravan is perfect, but it is still perfectly usable and not riddled with damp as some much newer ones appear to be. I'll patch it up as best I can as I feel it will probably be my last.

I grew up in a time when make do and mend was a way of life, so I have always tended to keep everything until it can no longer be fixed. In my opinion that is what we all ought to do to reduce our impact on the planet. Building caravans or anything else that is apparently "designed" to start falling apart after just a few years is one of our biggest problems today I feel.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin

Advertisement


Message posted by Ancient Uncle28/12/2021 at 11:46pm
Outfit:  Coachman Festival     Location:  None Entered
Joined: 22/5/2017
View Ancient Uncle's Profile View Profile   Reply to Ancient Uncle Reply   Quote Ancient Uncle Quote  
Ancient Uncle
Avatar
Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   286

Site Reviews Total: 3
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 6
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Regarding the ownership problem or car club.

When (and if) we do eventually get the autonomous car, perhaps it will simply be a question of phoning a supplier and request a car for a particular time to go to a set place. Car drives itself to your pick up point, drops you off at your destination and then goes to its next appointment.

Message posted by bessie500 via mobile 29/12/2021 at 12:23am
Outfit:  Ford Kuga Coachman Pastiche 575     Location:  Lancashire
Joined: 11/9/2006
View bessie500's Profile View Profile   Reply to bessie500 Reply   Quote bessie500 Quote  
bessie500
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2008

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 11
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Ancient Uncle on 28/12/2021
Regarding the ownership problem or car club.

When (and if) we do eventually get the autonomous car, perhaps it will simply be a question of phoning a supplier and request a car for a particular time to go to a set place. Car drives itself to your pick up point, drops you off at your destination and then goes to its next appointment.



Yep they call them taxis

Bessie


Message posted by bessie500 via mobile 29/12/2021 at 12:48am
Outfit:  Ford Kuga Coachman Pastiche 575     Location:  Lancashire
Joined: 11/9/2006
View bessie500's Profile View Profile   Reply to bessie500 Reply   Quote bessie500 Quote  
bessie500
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2008

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 11
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Ancient Uncle on 28/12/2021
Exactly, Colin.
I know someone who can not afford much in the way of a car, but needs one. So she buys an old banger for £2k-£3k and just runs it until it gives up. One of them kept going for 4years. Try that with BEV.




Ancient uncle so your pal that buys the car for 3k has to run it on fuel and service it to ensure that they get the most out of it, I know itís a bigger outlay but if you saved on fuel cost and service cost, that would enable them to save more money for a better car.
Driving in electric saves me £190 per month, almost £2500 a year saving, us a huge amount of money, even more so to people of low wages or fixed incomes

Bessie

Message posted by 664DaveS via mobile 29/12/2021 at 10:51am
Outfit:       Location:  
Joined: 24/7/2007
View 664DaveS's Profile View Profile   Reply to 664DaveS Reply   Quote 664DaveS Quote  
664DaveS
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   3981

Site Reviews Total: 43
Site Reviews 2022: 4  
Site Reviews 2021: 6  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 3  
Site Reviews 2018: 4  
Site Nights 2022: 35
Site Nights 2021: 56
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 20
Site Nights 2018: 41

We looked at changing our low mileage Santa Fe for the self charging hybrid one. It was lovely to drive and had plenty of power.Our caravan max weight is just under the 1500kg tow limit.
I doubt the economy would be as good towing being petrol plus electric.

Despite a very good trade in offer it was £20k to change plus £500 a year road tax for 5 years due to price over £ 40k!
That buys a lot of diesel.
Being retired we don't do a huge mileage so are keeping our existing one. (5 year old and 32000 miles!) Its like new and reliable.

We alsp have a Mini convertible on pcp,which is our runabout and fun car. Due to a massive increase in used car values, Mini offered us a new one for the same monthly cost. So we ordered another!
It won't come until May, having an automatic next time.
We could have had the electric Mini for a little more but they don't do convertibles! My wife loves it so decision was made!

-------------
DS-There's more to life than football!!!

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 29/12/2021 at 11:36am
Outfit:  Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2     Location:  Northamptonshire
Joined: 28/4/2009
View tdrees's Profile View Profile   Reply to tdrees Reply   Quote tdrees Quote  
tdrees
Avatar
Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   138

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 28/12/2021
Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 28/12/2021

There is zero evidence to suggest that a 15 year old BEV built in the last 5 years will lose half its range at age 15. 8-10% yes. Half? No.
There is also no reason that in 15 years it wonít be possible to by a 2nd hand ICE car for those that really want to have one for whatever reason. EVs will come down in price, both new and used, just as ICE cars have.

It goes without saying that choice is limited by funds. I was trying to point out that current technology allows for long distance caravan towing with little deviation from that which we can enjoy today using ICE cars. The personal choice aspect is now one which (if funds are available) will support either drive train (ICE or electric).



I'm not sure there is any evidence for 8-10% either. Most of the things I have seen either say that they will need replacing long before 15 years or that they will lose much more than 10% of their capacity. In any case, who would buy an EV knowing that the batteries will need replacing soon. I know I wouldn't. As far as I am concerned the only ones worth considering will be those whose batteries have already been replaced recently, and they will be too expensive for me.

I suppose it will depend on many things, such as how many miles the car has done, and how well the batteries have been looked after. How many fast-charges they have had will probably come into it too. I just think there are too many unknowns, and the older the car the more unknowns there will be.

Don't get the idea that I don't like EVs because I would have one like a shot, but it would have to be new or very nearly new, and there's no way I could afford that.




On the contrary, there is lots of evidence for percentage loss on Tesla S and X batteries up to and above 250,000km (180,000 miles) showing around 10% degradation over that range. At an average of 8.5k miles per year thatís over 21 years range. Itís 18 years at 10k miles pa. And these are not the latest batteries with the latest management systems. 10% degradation on my car would change my available range from 200 to 180 miles. Hardly a major issue, especially seeing as in the 7 months and 8000 miles I have had it, I can still remember all of the occasions I have had to public rapid charge. The rest of the time has been home charging with full range available ever morning (not that in have needed it).


https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/04/screen-shot-2018-04-14-at-2-56-15-pm.jpg?w=498&h=362&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1

Advertisement


Message posted by Colin2129/12/2021 at 2:54pm
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
Joined: 05/11/2013
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Colin21
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5245

Site Reviews Total: 14
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Teslas are very expensive cars, way beyond even my wildest dreams. Just a set of batteries alone for one of those would cost 2 or 3 times my total budget for a car.

The problem with buying any used car, especially one over 10 years old, is that you don't know how it has been treated by its previous owner(s). I would be extremely wary about buying a 10+ year old BEV unless I knew it had very recently had a new set of batteries, but then I probably couldn't afford to buy it anyway.

I now do less than 5,000 miles a year. My car hasn't moved since Saturday, and probably won't move again before Sunday. Then it will only probably do a 30 mile round trip. Even though my current car "only" does about 35mpg on average, that is way more than most of the petrol cars I had back in the 1960s and 1970s. My Toyota Spacecruiser only did about 18mpg on a good day, and even my Cortina only did about 25mpg average. Yet my X Trail is twice as powerful as either of them.

I may be quite wrong but I can see a situation in the future where a 15 year old BEV with a new set of batteries will sell for 2 or 3 times my maximum budget, but one with the original batteries will go for scrap value. I wouldn't touch one with a barge-pole.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin

Message posted by saxo129/12/2021 at 3:33pm
Outfit:       Location:  
Joined: 29/10/2005
View saxo1's Profile View Profile   Reply to saxo1 Reply   Quote saxo1 Quote  
saxo1
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4184

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Replacement batteries for a Nissan Leaf have dropped by 90% in Japan to app £2000 thanks to their collaboration with a battery refurbishing company, new ones are app £5000, at the launch of the Leaf they were app £20000!
At that rate a BEV will soon compare to an ICE!
saxo1

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 29/12/2021 at 4:46pm
Outfit:  Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2     Location:  Northamptonshire
Joined: 28/4/2009
View tdrees's Profile View Profile   Reply to tdrees Reply   Quote tdrees Quote  
tdrees
Avatar
Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   138

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 29/12/2021
Teslas are very expensive cars, way beyond even my wildest dreams. Just a set of batteries alone for one of those would cost 2 or 3 times my total budget for a car.

The problem with buying any used car, especially one over 10 years old, is that you don't know how it has been treated by its previous owner(s). I would be extremely wary about buying a 10+ year old BEV unless I knew it had very recently had a new set of batteries, but then I probably couldn't afford to buy it anyway.

I now do less than 5,000 miles a year. My car hasn't moved since Saturday, and probably won't move again before Sunday. Then it will only probably do a 30 mile round trip. Even though my current car "only" does about 35mpg on average, that is way more than most of the petrol cars I had back in the 1960s and 1970s. My Toyota Spacecruiser only did about 18mpg on a good day, and even my Cortina only did about 25mpg average. Yet my X Trail is twice as powerful as either of them.

I may be quite wrong but I can see a situation in the future where a 15 year old BEV with a new set of batteries will sell for 2 or 3 times my maximum budget, but one with the original batteries will go for scrap value. I wouldn't touch one with a barge-pole.



Tesla S and X were expensive, partly because batteries were expensive (and have come down in price enormously in the last 7-8 years) and partly because they are super-luxury cars aimed at the premium performance market. They are expensive like high end Merc E and S class and BMW 7 series are expensive. But you would never need a new set of batteries.

Car batteries are intended to last the life of the car just like the engine and drive train is intended to last the life of a car. No one buys a second hand car expecting to replace the engine, or only buys one after the engine has been replaced. Take a look on autotrader today to see how much Tesla S and X sell for after 5 or 6 years. It is absolutely not scrap value.

Part of what is going on here, is the amount of FUD (fear, uncertainty and denial) that has been spread around the lifetime of car batteries by the fossil fuel industry and traditional ICE car industry, is so large that the average joe on the street has a very mixed up view. The idea the car traction batteries have a lifetime that is similar to a phone or laptop battery is commonplace, but utter rubbish.

The real irony is you would be an ideal candidate for an EV. Very low mileage. Driveway you can park on (and presumably charge on?). Little need for long distance. The only issue is the need to tow. Actually a PHEV might suit you very well. A pre 2017 registered one is zero road tax. You would have around 20 to 30 miles of EV only range. Can be charged overnight via a granny lead (no need for an expensive charger install) for about 50p, and will tow a caravan with ease. And most have a manufacturer warranty of around 8 years on the battery pack.

Message posted by Ancient Uncle29/12/2021 at 5:19pm
Outfit:  Coachman Festival     Location:  None Entered
Joined: 22/5/2017
View Ancient Uncle's Profile View Profile   Reply to Ancient Uncle Reply   Quote Ancient Uncle Quote  
Ancient Uncle
Avatar
Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   286

Site Reviews Total: 3
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 6
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 29/12/2021
Quote: Originally posted by Ancient Uncle on 28/12/2021
Exactly, Colin.
I know someone who can not afford much in the way of a car, but needs one. So she buys an old banger for £2k-£3k and just runs it until it gives up. One of them kept going for 4years. Try that with BEV.




Ancient uncle so your pal that buys the car for 3k has to run it on fuel and service it to ensure that they get the most out of it, I know itís a bigger outlay but if you saved on fuel cost and service cost, that would enable them to save more money for a better car.
Driving in electric saves me £190 per month, almost £2500 a year saving, us a huge amount of money, even more so to people of low wages or fixed incomes

Bessie




Living on a pension, my friend would find it very difficult to layout more than £2k-£3k every few years. OK, so manage without a car for sufficient savings to buy a more expensive, newer car, would mean managing without. Not easy if there is no bus service and nearest shops are say 10 miles away.

Message posted by boff30/12/2021 at 11:13am
Outfit:  Hymer Nova 590GL     Location:  N Wales
Joined: 13/2/2005
View boff's Profile View Profile   Reply to boff Reply   Quote boff Quote  
boff
Avatar
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   528

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 29/12/2021
Replacement batteries for a Nissan Leaf have dropped by 90% in Japan to app £2000 thanks to their collaboration with a battery refurbishing company, new ones are app £5000, at the launch of the Leaf they were app £20000!
At that rate a BEV will soon compare to an ICE!
saxo1



There are plenty of predictions that BEV in the not too distant future will be cheaper than ICE cars.   They currently have one very expensive item the battery. But other main components are much cheaper ie the Motor compared to the engine, they donít need an 8spd gear box.   So the price curve will intersect.   Every report I ever read say that the life of the batteries is exceeding expectations, so in 10 years there will be plenty of EVís that will be entering the realms of those who practice bangernomics.

Message posted by Colin2130/12/2021 at 11:14am
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
Joined: 05/11/2013
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Colin21
Avatar
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5245

Site Reviews Total: 14
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 29/12/2021
Tesla S and X were expensive, partly because batteries were expensive (and have come down in price enormously in the last 7-8 years) and partly because they are super-luxury cars aimed at the premium performance market. They are expensive like high end Merc E and S class and BMW 7 series are expensive. But you would never need a new set of batteries.

Car batteries are intended to last the life of the car just like the engine and drive train is intended to last the life of a car. No one buys a second hand car expecting to replace the engine, or only buys one after the engine has been replaced. Take a look on autotrader today to see how much Tesla S and X sell for after 5 or 6 years. It is absolutely not scrap value.

Part of what is going on here, is the amount of FUD (fear, uncertainty and denial) that has been spread around the lifetime of car batteries by the fossil fuel industry and traditional ICE car industry, is so large that the average joe on the street has a very mixed up view. The idea the car traction batteries have a lifetime that is similar to a phone or laptop battery is commonplace, but utter rubbish.

The real irony is you would be an ideal candidate for an EV. Very low mileage. Driveway you can park on (and presumably charge on?). Little need for long distance. The only issue is the need to tow. Actually a PHEV might suit you very well. A pre 2017 registered one is zero road tax. You would have around 20 to 30 miles of EV only range. Can be charged overnight via a granny lead (no need for an expensive charger install) for about 50p, and will tow a caravan with ease. And most have a manufacturer warranty of around 8 years on the battery pack.



Yes that is the irony. I could very easily use a BEV, in fact it would be ideal for my day to day use, more so than my diesel X Trail, and I could very easily charge one at home. It is just the cost of purchase that is the problem. I can't afford to spend more than £2k to £3k on a car, and I usually keep cars at least 5 years. My Volvo V70 I had nearly 10 years and the main reason I sold it then was that with my back problems I was starting to struggle to get out, hence the need for a higher driving position as I have with the X Trail. If I ever do replace my X Trail before I have to give up driving, I will probably look at hybrids as I think they may be more affordable to me.

Incidentally, I do know a bit about batteries as many years ago I worked in the battery charging industry. I accept though that there have been many advances and my knowledge is well out of date.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

  Prev      Next

Jump To Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21

Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Tweet This!  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...





3470 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2022


Advertisement


Advertisement