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Subject Topic: Are electric cars the future
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Message posted by tdrees via mobile 12/1/2022 at 8:28pm
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Quote: Originally posted by billy on 12/1/2022
The dangers of filling up with petrol are negated by users common sense. With electric charging we just have to trust. All I was really pointing out is that you cannot change the laws of physics. If we get to 5minute charging for a 500mile range then the amount of current required to charge at that speed for that much range is huge. Is it even deliverable ? Campsite electric hookups deliver no more than 16amps & many less than that. Charging will be very slow & you still need to use available current for the usual caravan stuff.



I know what you are say, but on the contrary, EV charging does not rely on common sense. The car and charger talk to each other to establish that charging is safe, how fast it can go and can stop if anything goes wrong. There is no reliance on the idiot in the pump next to you understanding that itís not ok to pump fuel into an open container while smoking a cigarette.

But yes - bigger batteries require longer charge times, and more energy to be available. No getting away from that. But I believe itís totally realistic to expect 20 min charge times (if not 5) for 100kWh batteries with 200 mile range towing in future.
How long that will take is still a guess

Message posted by boff12/1/2022 at 10:33pm
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People really get hung up on charging times 99% time it doesnít matter.   Our car is currently charging ip up at 25miles per hour so it will be charged by the time I get up.   20 secs to plug in and 20 seconds to unplug.   

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 12/1/2022 at 11:05pm
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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 12/1/2022
People really get hung up on charging times 99% time it doesnít matter.   Our car is currently charging ip up at 25miles per hour so it will be charged by the time I get up.   20 secs to plug in and 20 seconds to unplug.   



Totally agree, Boff. It took me maybe 20s to plug mine in today, and 20s to unplug it this morning. That was after it had saved me 5 mins of scraping ice by pre-heating itís self before I went out to it.

I do get that while towing, being able to charge is important, and yes itís nice for it to be fast. But unlike petrol, I donít have to stand outside the car holding the nozzle. I plug it in, walk away and spend the 20 to 30 mins using the loo, drinking a coffee or looking at them view.

For me, I donít choose to tow with an EV because the EV is more convenient for towing. Itís not (and I have another PHEV I could more easily tow with). Itís that the simplicity of using the EV for everything else, while away or at home, so totally out weighs the inconvenience of the few times a year so have to charge while towing. The EV experience is just betterÖ

Message posted by bessie50013/1/2022 at 10:41am
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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 12/1/2022
Quote: Originally posted by boff on 12/1/2022
People really get hung up on charging times 99% time it doesnít matter.   Our car is currently charging ip up at 25miles per hour so it will be charged by the time I get up.   20 secs to plug in and 20 seconds to unplug.   



Totally agree, Boff. It took me maybe 20s to plug mine in today, and 20s to unplug it this morning. That was after it had saved me 5 mins of scraping ice by pre-heating itís self before I went out to it.

haha the pre heating function is amazing, my wing mirrors were steaming this morning when i got in the car.

Through the granny lead i charge mine at 10 amps which is plenty off a caravan charger, i can however knock it right down to whatever suits.

Bessie   

Message posted by martin73413/1/2022 at 12:08pm
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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 12/1/2022
People really get hung up on charging times 99% time it doesnít matter.   Our car is currently charging ip up at 25miles per hour so it will be charged by the time I get up.   20 secs to plug in and 20 seconds to unplug.   



Charging times do matter massively though. If I am driving 200-300 miles to a remote work site, something I do quite frequently, then charging time and range is very important. I work all over the UK frequently having to drive in excess of 200 miles in a day, often towing something, as well as having to work when I get to the site. Most of my work sites are nowhere near any sort of possible charging point. If I have to add 1-2 hours to each journey to recharge my EV, that is going to be a complete PITA. EV's are fine for short trips or for leisure or social use but pretty much useless for serious long-distance work travel. One example is the 2 day trip I do to North Yorkshire a couple of times a month. That is 320 miles and takes slightly less than 6 hours with a 15 minute stop. This is a manageable drive considering the 7-8 hours I then spend working on site the same day and the same drive back the evening of the following day. As my only power supply on the site is a couple of 5.2KW diesel generators that have to power pretty much everything on site, charging my vehicle on-site is not an option, this means I would have to spend 2 hours charging en route. This turns a long 6 hour drive into an 8 hour drive. This might be acceptable for a couple of weeks in the middle of summer, but for the rest of the time there simply isn't enough daylight hours for this to work.

I know that this does not matter to most people here, as most of you only use your cars for short commutes, and social and leisure trips. But for a very large number of people like myself, our vehicles are an essential work tool. Anything that reduces their practicality can make them useless. For many people, charging times and range are critical and not just for those people who use their vehicle for work, but for many people who don't hve the option of charging at home. For me, right now, a BEV is about as useless as it gets.

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Message posted by saxo113/1/2022 at 12:39pm
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The original question was "Are electric cars the future" with the advances in battery technology, although today's charge and range aren't suitable for a lot of people, it is for the majority of people,
Some of the latest vehicles have a range of 600Km and can recharge to 80% in 15 min or less.
You can't determine whether or not a vehicle will be suitable basing your assumption on today's specification.
saxo1

Message posted by boff13/1/2022 at 12:51pm
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That is 320 miles and takes slightly less than 6 hours with a 15 minute stop.

Sounds safe.

Message posted by martin73413/1/2022 at 1:19pm
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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 13/1/2022
That is 320 miles and takes slightly less than 6 hours with a 15 minute stop.

Sounds safe.


Perfectly safe. Drive for about 3 hours. Stop for 15 mins for toilet break and then drive the rest of the way. Most people are perfectly capable of driving for 3 hours at a time.

Message posted by blueexpo9713/1/2022 at 2:22pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 13/1/2022
The original question was "Are electric cars the future" with the advances in battery technology, although today's charge and range aren't suitable for a lot of people, it is for the majority of people,
Some of the latest vehicles have a range of 600Km and can recharge to 80% in 15 min or less.

You can't determine whether or not a vehicle will be suitable basing your assumption on today's specification.
saxo1



Sorry I don't understand your last sentence.

Surely you have to base your assumption on what is available right now in the present, and not what might be around when you are sitting in your care home.


-------------
XVI yes?

As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.

Message posted by bessie50013/1/2022 at 2:36pm
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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022
Quote: Originally posted by boff on 13/1/2022
That is 320 miles and takes slightly less than 6 hours with a 15 minute stop.

Sounds safe.


Perfectly safe. Drive for about 3 hours. Stop for 15 mins for toilet break and then drive the rest of the way. Most people are perfectly capable of driving for 3 hours at a time.




I currently drive 330 with only a fuel stop on my way to Cornwall towing the caravan,

I'm sure martins vehicle is more of a commercial vehicle than a standard car/ SUV

Bessie    


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Message posted by martin73413/1/2022 at 2:43pm
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No, my vehicle is classed as a dual purpose vehicle, not commercial. It is a 4 door, 5 seat pickup with a max GVW of 3500kg. It is registered and taxed as private light goods. It is a private vehicle that insured for business use. It does have a tachograph fitted for when I have to tow for work but it is still classed as a private vehicle.

Message posted by tdrees13/1/2022 at 2:48pm
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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022

Perfectly safe. Drive for about 3 hours. Stop for 15 mins for toilet break and then drive the rest of the way. Most people are perfectly capable of driving for 3 hours at a time.




So a Kia EV 6 will do around 250 to 280 (300 if you are careful) miles real world on a single charge, and will charge from 10% to 80% (175 to 200 miles) in 20 mins.
Based on your 320 mile round trip you could easily do 160 miles, stop for 15 mins and be back to 90%+ getting you to your destination with around 100 miles remaining. Return journey with one 25 min stop after 2 hours would get you home. It would take maybe 10 mins longer that your normal journey and cost about 1/4.

Many people seem to write of EVs as short range, or runabouts, or not fit for high mileages without looking at the latest data. 640 miles in one day, with little or no change to how you would use an ICE for the same journey is possible with the right car.

Granted - you would need a new Kia EV6 to do that, and I dare say you could do that same trip in pretty much any diesel rep-mobile. And you would not manage it towing a small trailer either.

But the point is, as Saxo1 says, this is about the future, and the future is basicaly here.

Message posted by bessie50013/1/2022 at 2:55pm
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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022
No, my vehicle is classed as a dual purpose vehicle, not commercial. It is a 4 door, 5 seat pickup with a max GVW of 3500kg. It is registered and taxed as private light goods. It is a private vehicle that insured for business use. It does have a tachograph fitted for when I have to tow for work but it is still classed as a private vehicle.



Martin have a look at the Hummer EV that should tick your box

Bessie


Message posted by martin734 via mobile 13/1/2022 at 3:18pm
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Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 13/1/2022
Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022
No, my vehicle is classed as a dual purpose vehicle, not commercial. It is a 4 door, 5 seat pickup with a max GVW of 3500kg. It is registered and taxed as private light goods. It is a private vehicle that insured for business use. It does have a tachograph fitted for when I have to tow for work but it is still classed as a private vehicle.



Martin have a look at the Hummer EV that should tick your box

Bessie


Theres an electric Hummer?


Message posted by bessie50013/1/2022 at 3:33pm
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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022
Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 13/1/2022
Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 13/1/2022
No, my vehicle is classed as a dual purpose vehicle, not commercial. It is a 4 door, 5 seat pickup with a max GVW of 3500kg. It is registered and taxed as private light goods. It is a private vehicle that insured for business use. It does have a tachograph fitted for when I have to tow for work but it is still classed as a private vehicle.



Martin have a look at the Hummer EV that should tick your box

Bessie


Theres an electric Hummer?





Yes and its a beast

Hummer

bessie

Message posted by tdrees13/1/2022 at 3:46pm
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Rivian R1T will be the other one to look at, or Ford F150 Lightning.

Assuming any of these make it to Europe.


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