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Subject Topic: Are electric cars the future
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Message posted by Colin2112/2/2022 at 2:57pm
Outfit:  1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail     Location:  East Herts
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One of the following comments mentioned drag and I have always said that this would probably have a more detrimental effect than weight. Weight has more effect from a standing start than it does when you are travelling at a constant speed whereas with drag the opposite is true. Drag, especially that from the air resistance from the front of the caravan, increases with speed, and at a constant speed it has a constant effect. When moving off from a stand, drag has very little effect but weight does, but once you are moving that reverses, and drag has the greatest effect. The frontal area of a relatively small light-weight caravan like mine is virtually the same as that of the largest twin-axle vans, but as it is light and well below the maximum towing weight of my car, I hardly notice it when moving off.

Would weight be the factor that reduces the range of an EV when towing, or would it be drag? I suspect drag would be the biggest factor unless the driver kept the speed very low.


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Colin

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 12/2/2022 at 3:35pm
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Definitely drag in my experience towing with my EV. Weight has a relatively small impact.

Message posted by Colin2112/2/2022 at 4:31pm
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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 12/2/2022
Definitely drag in my experience towing with my EV. Weight has a relatively small impact.



Exactly as I would have thought. Many years ago I tried towing a caravan with a VW air-cooled van that I bought part converted to a camper. I only bought it because I then had a newborn son as well as my two girls and we couldn't all fit in our Cortina with him in a carrycot. The Cortina coped easily with the caravan, but despite being withing the VW's towing weight it really struggled. It would get away ok, but once on the move it was a nightmare. It could barely do any more than 40mph with the caravan on the back and no wind. With a headwind it wouldn't pull top gear and I had to travel in third. With the wind from behind it would do 45-50mph. The fuel consumption was astronomical too! All down to wind-drag.


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Colin

Message posted by bobmel12/2/2022 at 10:54pm
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Electric cars and towing, like cans of dehydrated water, will never catch on.

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Robert (BoB)

Message posted by bessie500 via mobile 12/2/2022 at 11:06pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Devonatheart on 12/2/2022
Quote: Originally posted by neil and lena on 11/2/2022
whats the towing capacity of the Tucson PHEV ?



It would appear to be closer to 1350 kg, it is a heavy car with 261bhp. So probably limited to single axle, twin vans.



Itís 1650 kgs or cording to Hyundaiís Tuscan spec sheet

Bessie


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Message posted by tdrees via mobile 13/2/2022 at 7:03am
Outfit:  Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2     Location:  Northamptonshire
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Quote: Originally posted by bobmel on 12/2/2022
Electric cars and towing, like cans of dehydrated water, will never catch on.


I would not bet on that. Who knows what innovation will be made in the next 5 years or so.

Message posted by JedMcd via mobile 13/2/2022 at 1:47pm
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Hi, 8ve just joined the site and noted with interest this thread. As a Driver of an all electric ( Merc EQC) and Caravaner i thought ide ad my findings. I tow a Bailey with Max weight of 1450kg. but to be fare im never at full weight. An example of a journey would be one i did this wk end. Set off with 197 miles on car, drove 138 miles round trip and plugged in back at home with 26 miles to spare.

Charging is no problem as speeds are usually about 70 to 80 miles charge in 45m ish.

The problem i find is if you need to stop on route, there is no facility to charge whilst hooked up. Thus you need to un hook your trailer.

For longer journeys, you could expect to lose a third of your usual mileage. Hope this helps and is based on my own vehicle

Car: 2021 Merc eqc
allowable tow capacity 2000kg

Caravan: Bailey Olympus 546

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 13/2/2022 at 10:18pm
Outfit:  Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2     Location:  Northamptonshire
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Welcome Jedmcd. Have a look at my Polestar 2 trip report. Would love to know if it matches your experience.
https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=20&TopicID=364716&get=last#4875101

Message posted by JedMcd via mobile 14/2/2022 at 8:10am
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Hi td. Wow! detailed report and i couldnt compare to be honest. My merc is capable of 276 m to a 100% charge. But in reality, heating,lights,wipers,etc and based on previouse days driving is more like 199 to 210. I find that ill probably use approx a third more energy when towing and i dont slipstream,etc. In fact i drive just the same as my previouse diesel with the exception if the coasting mode. The longest trip ive ran has been 336 miles and on the whole trip stopped 4 times to re charge. Now my motor takes approx 1hr 15m on a high charger to charge 80% to a good 2 hrs on a 50kw.

I dont get range anxiety as its my 2nd ev and im into my 5th year of driving one. When i get down to about 35 to 50 mile i tap in the map nearest chargers.

Probably not the best and organised method. but all part of the adventuer!

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 14/2/2022 at 8:38am
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Jed, really good to hear of another EV driver using their car for towing, and with a decent sized caravan too. Was your 336 return or one way? Interesting that the 1/3rd range drop is about the same as the Polestar. I would have thought the bigger frontal area of the EQC compared to the Polestar2 would have made the drop less, but maybe not.
Would be great to hear how you manage charging with the van and where.
Building up a resource of towing friendly chargers would be very helpful.

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Message posted by JedMcd via mobile 14/2/2022 at 8:46am
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Hi TD. The 3rd in drop is a general figure and usually when i first set off. I dont know if the polestar has the coasting mode but i find it invaluable in saving on consumption. The Journey was a round trip. I found like you, i had to unhook the unit 1st and left the wife to babysit.

The joyrney i did this wk end was much better with no charging at all needed and on site i use the slow charger via hook up. but that only chargers her at about 10 miles per hr plugged in.

On a note re the car. you dont even notice the caravan on the back. Though she is rated at 2000kg and i tow way under that.

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 14/2/2022 at 9:29am
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Yes, when towing I turn one pedal drive (OPD) off, for no regen when you lift off. The brakes then control regen directly. Its easier to manage the recovery of energy back into the battery from the caravan when slowing.
Then on site itís back to full OPD.

Message posted by neil and lena16/2/2022 at 8:28am
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1650 kg is for the self charging AWD hybrid Tuscon with the 1.6 petrol engine

1350 kg for the plug in AWD hybrid Tuscon with the 1.6 engine

according to Hyundai sales

The new Kia Sportage with the same engine configuration still hasn't officially released towing figures on their website but the Kia salesman I spoke to thinks they'll be the same .

Either way 1350 kg for the plug in hybrid is not sufficient for my requirements since my van weighs 1550kg so I'll be sticking with diesel for the foreseeable future until something more suitable with a range of at least 250 miles when towing becomes available   .


Post last edited on 16/02/2022 08:32:29

Message posted by Fiona W via mobile 17/2/2022 at 5:34pm
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I checked Zap-Map app for my town. Most of the chargers are Charge Place Scotland & most were free to use. There is no such thing as a free lunch so I guess weíre all paying for other peopleís free EV charging - through rates, taxes, a surcharge on all our electricity bills, who knows.
About half of them have been out of action for weeks or months, I donít know if thatís widely the case or just in my backwater.
We canít fit a charger at home because weíre in a terrace with our electricity coming off a ring that serves all the properties; you must have your own direct electricity supply. I read recently of a home owner in this same position asking legal advice because the neighbour had told them his supplier was going to dig the cable trench through the writerís garden to fit their EV charger. Not on, was the advice, without various legal safeguards regarding wayleaves etc.

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2022 = 8 sites, 22 nights. 2021 = 11 / 29. 2020 = 4 / 20. 2019 = 13 / 35. 2018 = 20 / 33. 2017 = 10 / 22. 2016 = 19 / 33. 2015 = 15 sites / 27 nights. Didn't count 1976 to 2014.

Message posted by tdrees via mobile 17/2/2022 at 5:44pm
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Charge place Scotland are moving from a free charging to a paid charging model. It was free when it first started to encourage take up, but this year has moved to paid to fund chargers repair and rollout.

If you are on a looped supply, you can ask your supplier to unloop your property. If you are the 1st house on the loop it may not involve a dig for you. If your neighbor is the 1st it may not involve a dig for them. You may have to pay for the privilege of being un looped if you are making the request (itís dependent on your DNO). If work is needed on your neighbourís property to unloop you, that will be free of charge to them and will include reinstatement of whatever needed to be disturbed.

Message posted by bobmel18/2/2022 at 11:29pm
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Next car will be another diesel. I want to get where I am going with no phaff. P.S. I am now 70 and cannot wait for the "next" generation of ev's. If anything I would go hydrogen.

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Robert (BoB)


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