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Subject Topic: Are electric cars the future
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Message posted by skipp6614/10/2021 at 8:53pm
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I have been watching this thread with interest.
My current car is a 2014 Honda Civic 1.6 diesel, im getting an average of 65mpg and its zero road tax.
My annual millage is 22K.
And it can tow 1150 KG. its now done 100K so possibly looking at a replacement.
Would love to go electric and do my bit, but being realistic my only options are another civic or an octavia or simillar.
As i have to buy the car myself and only normally spend around 10K on my car.
Would be genuinely interested in what other people use as an everyday car/ towwcar for my kind of millage and a 1100 KG van.

Cheers
Dan

Message posted by bessie500 via mobile 15/10/2021 at 12:00am
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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 14/10/2021


The actual number of car registered in September and year to date. What is striking is the collapse in the sales of Diesel engined cars which are down 77%

https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/September-Fuel-2021-and-YTD-cars.png






I think that the figures shown in here is partly due to not being able to get new diesel/ petrol cars due to the chip shortage.
Tesla on the other hand doesn’t use the chip, if you order a Tesla today it’s will be yours by December, they are shipping thousands each month, a mate of mine is test driving one tomorrow apparently the battery now has a 10 year warranty

Bessie

Message posted by martin73416/10/2021 at 9:54am
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Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 14/10/2021
I have been watching this thread with interest.
My current car is a 2014 Honda Civic 1.6 diesel, im getting an average of 65mpg and its zero road tax.
My annual millage is 22K.
And it can tow 1150 KG. its now done 100K so possibly looking at a replacement.
Would love to go electric and do my bit, but being realistic my only options are another civic or an octavia or simillar.
As i have to buy the car myself and only normally spend around 10K on my car.
Would be genuinely interested in what other people use as an everyday car/ towwcar for my kind of millage and a 1100 KG van.

Cheers
Dan


My annual mileage is slightly higher than yours at an average of about 30k, almost half of which is while towing something. I have two vehicles that I regularly tow with; a Freelander TD4 2.0 diesel which does up to 40mpg and has a VED rate of £340. I don't tow a caravan though, just trailers of various types. I only use the Freelander for lightweight trailers of 1000kg-2000kg. It tows up to 2000kg extremely well and still returns acceptable economy. The nearest thing to a caravan I tow are horse boxes and livestock trailers and the occasional box trailer, when loaded correctly stability is never a problem.

For towing anything larger or carrying heavy loads I use my Land Rover Defender 130. That has a 4.6 litre petrol engine, does 12-20 mpg and has a VED rate of £280. It runs mostly on Autogas at an average of 66p per litre so the running costs are similar to the Freelander. I use this to tow all sorts of trailers from 1000kg to 4000kg. I do not anticipate keeping the Freelander for many more years, but I expect that the Defender will still be going long after I stop driving. It is over 30 years old and is on its 3rd engine and 2nd gearbox. There are still plenty of spare parts for it available and I think it will be quite a few years until we see an electric vehicle that can match its capabilities.



Post last edited on 16/10/2021 10:09:52

Message posted by 664DaveS via mobile 16/10/2021 at 10:38am
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We could run an electric car as an everyday one and keep the Santa Fe for towing or longer trips. It's low mileage and being well maintained should last.
We have a Mini convertible which is great fun and probably uses one tank of petrol a month so not a big cost. We use that for local stuff and days out.
An electric one costs a bit to more to buy or lease and they don't do a convertible. Possibly a fair wait to get one too.
Another option is a classic as I have the tools and skill to maintain one having had a couple.

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Message posted by Colin2116/10/2021 at 12:28pm
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Quote: Originally posted by 664DaveS on 16/10/2021
We could run an electric car as an everyday one and keep the Santa Fe for towing or longer trips.



We are very similar, but apart from the fact that we can't afford to buy an electric car, we would find it very difficult to justify having two vehicles. I am the only driver, and one vehicle would always have to be parked in the street as we only have space for the caravan and one car. An electric car would easily do most of our daily driving, but it would have to have a high driving seat because of my back, and it would have to be able to tow a caravan and have a range when towing of at least 150 miles.


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Message posted by 664DaveS via mobile 16/10/2021 at 2:56pm
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We do need two cars but we like having the convertible it's great on country roads and for trips to our neighbouring Wales!
No kids or mortgage worked all our lives so we can't take it with us!

While our Hyundai was in being serviced we had a look,at the Ioniq 5 and Kona electric cars. Both very nice and good range. Ioniq is quite big and starts at £38k, Kona is a small,suv and a bit less.
Not towcars though.

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Message posted by skipp6616/10/2021 at 8:01pm
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Some interesting comments on this post. Id love to run an old school landrover as ive driven a few over the years, but mileage and finances dictate that i can only run one vehicle.
Also sorry if we have higacked the original post! But its good to hear what other folks on here have to say.

Message posted by neil and lena25/10/2021 at 10:00pm
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Quote: Originally posted by dimbles on 17/9/2021
The arguement about the phasing out of petrol and diesel vehicles and the introduction of electric.Reminds me of a few years ago when I worked as a central heating installer. Its hard to believe that at the time some people refused to have central heating in their homes. The reasons for not having it rolled off their tongue, they refused to believe or see the benefits of it.
By the same token some people today are refusing to accept the fact that electric cars are here now, not something in the distant future.
The doubters will soon be the converts a lot sooner than they think.




petrol and diesel will be around for good few years yet , a lot longer than you think .
I see many new 71 plate cars on the road where I live and only a small percentage are battery powered .
Most are petrol with a few new upmarket diesels such as Audi , Landrover




Post last edited on 25/10/2021 22:09:02

Message posted by billy26/10/2021 at 6:39am
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If by a good few years you mean until say 2045 then yes. Petrol/diesels on sale until 2030 & plenty of cars last well over 10yrs. Hybrids until 2035 so could well be petrol/diesel cars still as viable running vehicles for another 25yrs. That is a practical proposition which ignores the politics that may or may not make those cars unviable to run well before those dates.

Already you have less well off Londoners with diesels older than 2015 & petrols older than 2005 paying £12.50pd to drive within north/south circular boundary to presumably finance charging points for better off Londoners who can afford electric cars for which there are no pay to drive charges atm.

Electric cars are selling better than expectations. People are buying them because they want them. Any “predictions” made on this thread appear to be the way the predictors wish it could go. Ie forget this whole ridiculous electric thing cos we just love our pokey turbo diesels. Unfortunately the world’s car manufacturers would tend to disagree.


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Message posted by Colin2126/10/2021 at 12:01pm
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A lot will be down to money. There are a lot of variables. Many of those who would like a BEV cannot afford one, and many of those who could afford one would have nowhere to charge it at home. Flat dwellers, those with only on-street parking etc, and that applies to a lot of people who live in urban areas. I will have to stick to my diesel for as long as I possibly can, even though I could easily use a BEV for most of my day to day driving and could easily charge one at home, simply because there is no way I could afford one which would be suitable for me. I am by no means alone, in fact there are probably many hundreds of thousands in a similar position, and many of them are essential workers in low-paid jobs. If I had to, being retired I could do without my car, but those essential workers couldn't.

I don't get why all the attention is focused on cars when in my opinion, cars are the least of the problems anyway. What about all the heavy plant, HGVs, ships, and diesel trains? We are still building non-electrified lines, and quite a bit of the existing rail network isn't electrified either. Freight trains mainly use diesel locos because even though a lot of their intended route is electrified, there is a section somewhere on that route that isn't. When the rail network was entirely BR owned, they could have locos that could be swapped (electric for diesel) en-route, but now with all the different companies that isn't practical so they use diesel all the way as it can go anywhere. The problem is far more complex than simply swapping petrol and diesel cars for BEVs. That is only the very tip of the iceberg.


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Message posted by skipp6627/10/2021 at 7:59pm
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That is a very good point from Colin.
I work at a busy IMP ( industrial manufacturing plant)
I did a rough count last week of all the deliveries we had on a daily basis.
We averaged 45 deliverys per day. That is a lot of Diesel powered trucks every day.
And a huge amount of those deliveries had been delivered by ship to felixstow.
So how we as a country move away from Diesel fuel ..... I have no idea ?
But the goverment or whoever makes the choices really needs to stop picking on easy targets like car users and people who like to tow, and have a look at where the real issue is, in my oppinion.

Message posted by Colin2127/10/2021 at 8:26pm
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Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 27/10/2021
That is a very good point from Colin.
I work at a busy IMP ( industrial manufacturing plant)
I did a rough count last week of all the deliveries we had on a daily basis.
We averaged 45 deliverys per day. That is a lot of Diesel powered trucks every day.
And a huge amount of those deliveries had been delivered by ship to felixstow.
So how we as a country move away from Diesel fuel ..... I have no idea ?
But the goverment or whoever makes the choices really needs to stop picking on easy targets like car users and people who like to tow, and have a look at where the real issue is, in my opinion.




Indeed. In my opinion until someone comes up with a viable alternative to the diesel engine, it will be with us for a very long time as we have become utterly dependent on it. Maybe not in cars, but certainly in many of its other heavy applications. At present, what could power a bulldozer or a container-ship but a diesel engine? We may get rid of the diesel engine in cars, and that will make a difference but only a very tiny one. There is a massive amount more to be done to solve our environmental problems. Are BEVs the future? Personally I have my doubts, even though I would like one if I could afford it. Will they solve our environmental problems? Not by a very long way indeed, of that I am certain.



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Message posted by saxo128/10/2021 at 12:18pm
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Just over 3/4 of road traffic over the last few years were cars and taxis,if the pollution from them was eradicated it would contribute significantly to meeting the target.
Cars may appear to be the easy option but compared to commercial delivery vehicles they are least essential.
Transport is now the largest sector for UK greenhouse gas emissions
(27%), of which road transport accounts for over 90%.

Rome wasn't built in a day!
saxo1

Post last edited on 28/10/2021 12:41:05

Message posted by dimbles28/10/2021 at 1:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 28/10/2021
Just over 3/4 of road traffic over the last few years were cars and taxis,if the pollution from them was eradicated it would contribute significantly to meeting the target.
Cars may appear to be the easy option but compared to commercial delivery vehicles they are least essential.
Transport is now the largest sector for UK greenhouse gas emissions
(27%), of which road transport accounts for over 90%.

Rome wasn't built in a day!
saxo1



According to most if not all of the climate information,that I have seen ,The UK adds less than one per cent of CO2 released into the atmosphere its so small that its insignificant in the scheme of things. What happens in the UK will not matter one jot to the world. On a more positive note a large part of the UK is in the process of being returned to nature, With the re introduction of species such as beaver,bison boar,barn door eagles, wolves are also being considered along with others, I am pleased to say that I did contribute by working on the reforrestation along the A38 , with large tracts of land being returned to forrest.



Message posted by saxo128/10/2021 at 1:42pm
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Some figures say between 1.1% and 3% those figures are purely on UK generated emissions they don't include the UK contribution associated with importation and transport from overseas.
Global emissions is another issue but does that mean we shouldn't attempt to achieve our UK targets?
The discussion here is mainly focussed on the introduction of BEVs for the UK market to comply with UK targets
When considering percentages it is significant to note that as a country the UK represents app 0.87 % of the world population so we are producing more than our fair share!
saxo1

Post last edited on 28/10/2021 13:55:05

Message posted by dimbles28/10/2021 at 5:36pm
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Where did the figure of 3% come from ?.


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