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Subject Topic: Are electric cars the future
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Message posted by Colin2128/10/2021 at 9:59pm
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I try to treat all percentages with a little pinch of salt, as they tend to vary a great deal according to where they are from. I completely agree that we should do all we can to reduce our pollution levels, but I don't think cars are as huge a factor as they are made out to be.

Cars of today are infinitely cleaner running than those that I remember from my childhood. No longer do we see many cars going along the road in clouds of smoke, which was once commonplace. I can remember when you could barely see 50 yards up any city high street because of the fug generated by bumper to bumper traffic. I also remember the smogs in London, caused by vehicles and homes burning coal. Even with the increase in traffic levels I'm sure things must be a lot better today than they once were. I think there is a lot more that needs to be done rather than just concentrating on cars.


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Message posted by saxo129/10/2021 at 11:38am
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They are concentrating on a great many other things beside cars ,gas boilers is one, that could be more expensive than replacing your old diesel car with a S/H BEV.
On the industrial side the production of hydrogen to power hybrid trains and ships, developing bio fuels to reduce the emissions from HGV road vehicles. They problem is they all have associated cost and take time to develop whereas the battery vehicle is already to go.
saxo1

Message posted by navver29/10/2021 at 7:51pm
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I think lorries could use overhead mains electric similar to trains on motorways and major A roads then just use batteries for the journey to and from motorway only.

A lot of freight could go by rail using electric instead of lorry.

Ships could use sails quite effectively and considerably reduce fuel use. The beauty of sails is that the forward movement causes apparent wind like you feel in your face when you walk on a still day.

This increases with speed making the boat go faster which further increases the wind and so on. Look at the speeds the Americas Cup boats get up to. They can do more than twice the wind speed.

Message posted by Colin2129/10/2021 at 9:15pm
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Pity we got rid of the trams and trolley-buses isn't it. Then again we have brought trams back in some places.

I definitely think much more freight should go by rail, but to use electric locomotives they would have to electrify much more of the network. Existing freight journeys often end up being hauled by a diesel loco throughout, simply because one short section of their route isn't electrified.

Interesting point about sailing ships.

In my opinion though many of our current problems are caused by us having an economy based on consumerism. People have been indoctrinated into buying more and more "stuff" that they probably don't need, and we have become a throw-away society. The amount of raw material that is used and then thrown away in a short time is just crazy! I was brought up on make do and mend, and I still do wherever possible, but subsequent generations have been encouraged to buy things then throw them away when they get fed up with them, so that they can buy new again. An awful lot of energy gets used up that way as well as raw materials.



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Colin

Message posted by dimbles30/10/2021 at 4:34am
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Quote:

In my opinion though many of our current problems are caused by us having an economy based on consumerism. People have been indoctrinated into buying more and more "stuff" that they probably don't need, and we have become a throw-away society. The amount of raw material that is used and then thrown away in a short time is just crazy! I was brought up on make do and mend, and I still do wherever possible, but subsequent generations have been encouraged to buy things then throw them away when they get fed up with them, so that they can buy new again. An awful lot of energy gets used up that way as well as raw material



The only current problems I know about are those make believe problems in the media.

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Message posted by 664DaveS via mobile 30/10/2021 at 11:47am
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Looking at the worst polluters, we are way down the league, but I agree we should do our bit. I have no time for Insulate Britain types.

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Message posted by Colin2130/10/2021 at 12:12pm
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Quote: Originally posted by 664DaveS on 30/10/2021
Looking at the worst polluters, we are way down the league, but I agree we should do our bit. I have no time for Insulate Britain types.


No, I don't either. I agree with what they are saying, but what they are doing is quite another matter. For any kind of protest to succeed, not that many do, you have to have the majority of the public with you, but all they are doing is alienating the very people they need behind them.


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Message posted by saxo130/10/2021 at 12:20pm
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The UK is still the 17th highest producer of CO2 out of 195 countries!
saxo1

Message posted by Colin2130/10/2021 at 1:50pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 30/10/2021
The UK is still the 17th highest producer of CO2 out of 195 countries!
saxo1


Not really that surprising given our population density and our addiction to consumerism. In all probability most of the countries that produce less than us are less wealthy and don't consume in such vast quantities as we do. They probably keep more stuff until it is worn out, or no longer repairable, whereas in this country we tend to throw stuff away simply because we have had it a couple of years and there is a new model out that's a different colour. Think how much perfectly good stuff ends up in landfill in this country, and that all adds to our production of CO2 and other greenhouse gases.


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Message posted by saxo130/10/2021 at 2:20pm
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We are the highest of the EU countries apart from Germany, who have far more industry (app double) than the UK,
saxo1

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Message posted by dimbles30/10/2021 at 3:01pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 30/10/2021
The UK is still the 17th highest producer of CO2 out of 195 countries!
saxo1


Rather than make wild statements could you please tell where you are getting this information. As I have perviously said ,I was involved in the progamme to return large parts of the UK back to nature, And took a keen interest in the so called climate change, The first hand information that I was privy to is totaly at odds with what you are saying.

Message posted by saxo130/10/2021 at 4:37pm
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It isn't difficult to find,here is one of the many I looked at:
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions
I also found it in a house of commons library document but can't locate at the moment.
saxo1

Message posted by iank0131/10/2021 at 7:52am
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I wonder how much pollution is going to be caused by fossil fuel vehicles travelling around the country to add to the electric charging network and according to the news this morning, repairing the charging stations. I wonder how much fossil fuel is going to be used to supplement the electric network to keep up with demand? How many more power stations are being built or are we going to move back to the 1974 winter of discontent stage with 3 day weeks and constant load shedding?

Message posted by Colin2131/10/2021 at 10:01am
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 31/10/2021
I wonder how much pollution is going to be caused by fossil fuel vehicles travelling around the country to add to the electric charging network and according to the news this morning, repairing the charging stations. I wonder how much fossil fuel is going to be used to supplement the electric network to keep up with demand? How many more power stations are being built or are we going to move back to the 1974 winter of discontent stage with 3 day weeks and constant load shedding?


Yes indeed. As I said earlier in this thread, it is a very complicated matter, and the issue of switching to electric cars is only a very very tiny proportion of the solution. I believe that we are going to have to make truly massive changes to our entire way of life, and it is mainly going to be the next two generations who are going to be affected. Anyone who is thinking that it is just going to be a simple switch from petrol and diesel cars to electric ones, and carrying on as before is seriously deluding themselves. It's going to take very much more than that. I personally think that there is going to be a lot more working from home. Work patterns are going to have to seriously change, and the era of commuting is coming to an end.


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Message posted by saxo131/10/2021 at 12:58pm
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National grid state that there is adequate generation capacity to cope with the uptake of BEVs.
The winter of discontent in 1978/9 was as a result of labour unrest nothing to do with the lack of generating capacity just the lack of people to operate it.
saxo1

Message posted by Colin2131/10/2021 at 1:54pm
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Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 31/10/2021
National grid state that there is adequate generation capacity to cope with the uptake of BEVs.
The winter of discontent in 1978/9 was as a result of labour unrest nothing to do with the lack of generating capacity just the lack of people to operate it.
saxo1


Yes you are right about 1978/9, but I have serious doubts about anything coming from the National Grid as they seem to say one thing one minute and the complete opposite the next.

I am inclined to think that there is probably just about enough capacity to cope with the uptake of BEVs at current levels, but then oil-fuelled cars are still very much in the majority. I have also heard the National Grid say that currently the system is straining at its limits, particularly at certain times of the day. Those statements from them can't both be right.

It is true of course that most BEV charging will probably be done overnight when demand is at its lowest, but certainly not all, as more people who are yet to get BEVs will probably make more use of rapid chargers during the day. Unless work patterns change this could mean more people wanting rapid charging during rush hours.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of BEVs are currently owned by retired people. Those who don't commute or otherwise avoid travelling during rush hours if they can. I'm certainly like that with my diesel car. That was one of the things I liked about most of the jobs I did during my working days. Very few of the jobs I did had regular hours, and most were shift work.


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Colin


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