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 Topic: Driving Abroad
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Don't forget to leave a review of the French and other European campsites you have visited!
Don't forget to leave a review of the French and other European campsites you have visited!
Message posted by paul_M24/7/2013 at 4:27pm
Outfit: Vango Typhoon 300 Location: South Yorks
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paul_M
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Ho ho - thanks! Sounds very civilised. Quote: Originally posted by saxo1 on 24/7/2013
Allowing alternate vehicles to enter the flow.One plain one pearl
Saxo1
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Message posted by wasntbtf26/7/2013 at 8:29am
Outfit: Hobby 540 UFe Sprite Alpine C Location: Carcassonne France
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I posted this in the Driving in France topic back in May.
Hope it helps clear up what the situation is in France.
Before getting to the original post there are a few points to add to or emphasis:
You should not have to give up passport or driving licence at campsites, hotels etc certainly if you are an EU citizen. Losing your passport will completely ruin everything.
The rule of the road is still give way to traffic coming from the right, unless otherwise signposted. Beware though fewer and fewer people, including locals, take any notice. But this doesn't change who will be at fault if there is an accident.
Since 2008 the speed restrictions when towing in France are based on the Gross Train Weight specified for the towing vehicle regardless of what the sum of the Maximum Authorised Mass for the towing vehicle and the Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass for the trailer comes to. For example, with my Beemer (2335kg MAM) I am subject to the speed restrictions regardless of whether I tow 1500kg of caravan or 500kg of baggage trailer because the GTW for the car is 4335 kg. Illogical, not the same as the UK but it is the law in France.
Speed stickers for vehicles subject to the towing speed restrictions as specified in the Code de la Route are required, the Code does not differentiate between private and commercial vehicles. The stickers only cost pence and it is a courtesy to other drivers.
Stitching - This pretty much only works in Paris and to a lesser extent the other large towns such as Lyon or Marseilles. It does not work universally, there is nowhere round where we live nr Carcassonne or on our regular route up to St Malo where it works not even on the peripheriques round Toulouse and Bordeaux. So much so that even after 15 years down here we still comment when somebody lets you in when merging. Also the French don't expect it to happen, we have lost count of the number of times we have seen to queues of traffic come to a holt when merging because two drivers can't get to grips with the idea.
Good Samaritan law, yes you are obliged to offer assistance to anybody in distress, this part of the Code Penal and so applies to all situations, house fire, somebody being mugged in the street as well as road accidents. Phoning the emergency services, flagging down traffic, providing first aid are all acts of assistance, you are just obliged to do what you can provided you aren't putting yourself or others at risk by doing so.
Unmanned toll booths, more and more of these are unmanned. If they are unmanned and open there will be a machine that you can put your ticket and a credit/debit card into to pay the toll. Unless the equipment is faulty you won't find yourself unable to pay your toll and leave the autoroute.
As before any questions let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.
Grahame.
I produced this for another caravanning forum I'm on, so I thought I would post it here as well. I hope that at least some find it useful.
I have collated the latest information from the law (principally Code de la Route), Statutory Instruments (Décret /Arrêté) and Ministerial Guidance, together with our experience over the past 15 years of living in France.
Apart from keeping ourselves legal, our son is now driving in France having passed his test in the UK last year and we are buying a Hobby in the UK which we will eventually bring back to France, so we had to check out both these aspects.
If you do run into a problem, establishing communication in French will help to smooth the way. Many French do speak English and will be prepared to meet you more than half way.
Remember that even for a simple breach of the law in terms of not having the proper equipment (warning triangle or safety jacket for example) you are liable to a 135 Euro fine.
Documents
You must carry your passport with you at all times and have your driving licence and vehicle documents with you when driving. In reality the French police are a lot more practical these days about carrying the originals provided you can take the originals to a police station on demand.
Every person travelling with you must have their own valid passport, including children.
You must have the registration document (V5), the MOT certificate if required and a valid certificate of motor insurance. They won't be interested what level of insurance cover you have, just that you are insured to drive in France, so you need to be able to show the territorial limits that apply; your Green Card will do this.
If don't own the vehicle and/or trailer and especially if it isn't your name on the V5 you must have an authorisation from the owner, preferably in French, to use it/them.
If you are towing a caravan that is CRIS registered it is a good idea to have the registration document with you, although it is quite likely that a French policeman won't recognise it as in France any trailer of 750kg or more has to be registered just like a car and has a separate vehicle registration document.
Everyone should have a European Health Insurance Card. In practice you may well have to pay for treatment and then reclaim what you have paid out when you get home. The EHIC isn't a substitute for insurance cover but it does get you into the system so you can be treated.
Even though original documents need to be carried, it is advisable to take photocopies including your passports and credit cards, leaving a set with somebody that you can contact in an emergency and taking a set with you separate from the originals, in case anything gets lost or stolen.
Equipping your Car
Your headlights need to be adjusted/switched to the European pattern (dipping straight down rather than to the left) or have appropriate deflectors for the headlights so that you do not dazzle other motorists. Home grown solutions with electrical tape might not pass muster under a gendarme's scrutiny and could also damage you lights.
If you don't have Euro registration plates (Blue panel with a circle of 12 stars and GB on it) you will need to have have a GB plate on your vehicle and caravan.
The following are legal requirements:
Emergency triangle for the car and another if you have a trailer or caravan with gross laden weight of 500kg or more.
Reflective safety jacket for the driver and this must be kept somewhere accessible to the driver while in the car (door pocket, glove box for instance).
When towing fit extending/additional mirrors if you need them to be able to see a vehicle that is overtaking and to eliminate any "blind spot" caused by the caravan.
No speed camera notifications on your Sat Nav or other means of detecting speed cameras.
NF approved breathalyser kit, see below about the current situation regarding penalties.
The following are not legally required in France but are prudent precautions and may be obligatory in other countries:
Fire extinguisher
First aid kit.
Replacement bulbs - although if you haven't got them or don't know how to replace a bulb you may find that you are not allowed to proceed on your journey in the event of being stopped because of a bulb failure.
Spare wheel - again you may find that you are not allowed to proceed if one of your tyres does not conform to the law (tread depth, pressure etc.) and you can't replace it. A tyre pump is a good idea as well.
Reflective safety jacket for each passenger
Replacement fuses.
Spare driving glasses
Driving Licences
The earliest you can pass the test to drive a car in France is 18 years of age. So even if you passed your driving test in the UK at the age of 17, you still cannot drive in France until you are 18 and have an unrestricted licence (a provisional licence is not enough).
Provided your full licence was issued by an EU state or one of the other countries that France has an agreement with, you don't need an International Driving Permit otherwise you must have one. In 50 odd years of being taken to France or driving in France myself I have never come across a problem with a British driving licence not even pre-EEC days and the dark red booklet style UK licence.
If you have had your full driving licence for less than three years you must abide by the speed limits defined for probationary drivers; N.B. two years only applies if you obtained your licence under the French learner driver scheme Conduite Accompagnée (accompanied driving):
110 kph in place of 130 kph autoroute limit;
100 kph in place of a lower autoroute limit and on dual carriageways;
80 kph on other roads.
Probationary drivers are also obliged to show an "A" plate at the rear of the vehicle, probably at the back of the trailer/caravan if towing (one of the things I will check at our local Gendarmerie) and an "A" plate must only be displayed when the probationary driver is driving.
Rule of the road
Don't forget that give way to traffic coming from the right still applies unless the road markings/signs show otherwise.
If you are driving a vehicle or vehicle/trailer combination of 3500 kg or more you must leave 50 metres between you and vehicles in front.
Pedestrians have priority provided they are showing a clear intention to cross the road. This is not restricted to pedestrian crossings. However, if there is a pedestrian crossing within 50 metres pedestrians are obliged to use it to cross the road.
The rules for positioning and signalling when negotiating a roundabout are basically the same as they are in the UK although you wouldn't think so. Roundabouts didn't appear to any great extent in France until the 70s/80s and there are many drivers on the road who have passed their test without ever encountering one. Caution at roundabouts and a certain scepticism on what everybody else is signalling/doing is prudent.
Speed Limits
Speed limits are varied and at times confusing. The basic rules out of town are:
Péages and other autoroutes where indicated, are 130 kph, but this is reduced in bad weather to 110 kph.
Autoroutes not signed for 130 kph and dual carriageways with a central reservation are 110 kph (100 kph in bad weather).
Main roads are 90 kph (80 kph in bad weather).
The above speed limits are for vehicles of less than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MTM) even if towing a trailer/caravan provided that the Gross Train Weight (GTW) specified for the towing vehicle is less than 3,500kg.
In a town or village no matter how small (between the sign at the entry through to the exit sign) a maximum of 50 kph applies unless otherwise indicated, you may or may not get 50 kph limit signs or repeaters but the limit is there nonetheless. The exception to this is the Paris périphérique where an 80 kph limit applies.
There may well be a 70 kph limit before/after the town/village and there are often 40 or 30 kph limits, particularly near schools, hospitals etc.
If the GTW specified for the towing vehicle is 3,500kg or greater the out of town limits become:
90 kph on autoroutes
90 kph on dual carriageways with a central reservation
80 kph elsewhere
In town a maximum speed of 50 kph applies even if a higher limit is indicated with the exception of the Paris périphérique where the 80 kph limit still applies.
It seems possible that basing this limit on the GTW may not have been intended and should have been based on the MAM of the towing vehicle plus the Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) of the trailer. A similar definition used to determine what class of licence is required to tow has just been changed. However, there is no indication that this definition as regards maximum speed allowed will be changed.
Checks on vehicle loading, tyre pressures etc. whether towing or not are commonplace along autoroutes and major roads on tourist routes during the summer.
Note. Even if your registration document doesn't show the different weights (MAM, GTW etc.) the French authorities have access to them for all cars that have a European wide homolugation at least. My UK registered car only had the service weight on the V5. When I imported it to France all the other weights appeared on my French registration document.
A vehicle subject to these limits must show that they are, this is done by affixing at the rear two white discs showing the figures 90 and 80 respectively.
If you are towing a caravan you also need to know the maximum speed it is homolugated for and not exceed that. For instance 'vans originally homolugated in France will have a maximum speed rating of 100kph, 'vans from Germany will have a speed rating of 100 kph unless they don't meet certain German stability and safety regulations when they will be rated at 80 kph.
If visibility is less than 50 metres a limit of 50 kph overrides all other higher limits.
If you are on a three lane autoroute or dual carriageway an outfit weighing 3,500kg or more must not use the leftmost (fast) lane, there is a minimum speed of 80kph which applies to the middle lane. The 80 kph minimum speed also applies to the leftmost (fast) lane on a two lane autoroute or dual carriageway.
Confiscation of your driving licence
Your licence may be confiscated by the police for up to 72 hours for: driving under the influence of alcohol or apparent influence of drugs/alcohol; exceeding the speed limit by 40kph or more; or if you are involved in a fatal accident and the police suspect that you have committed an offence such as speeding or ignoring the rules relating to overtaking or priority at a junction.
If nobody else is qualified or able to drive the vehicle will be impounded.
Speed Cameras
The French authorities are determined to curb excessively fast driving, if for no other reason than the number of accidents it causes and the cost, both direct and indirect, to the country.
The speed cameras currently in use are either:
fixed speed cameras; signposting of these had been stopped and existing signposting progressively removed but in typical Gallic style the current government has decided to reverse this policy and install signposting for all new fixed speed cameras. There are about 2200 installed;
average speed cameras are starting to be installed on main routes in dangerous areas (bends, descents ..) or where an accident may have disproportionate consequences (tunnels, viaducts). There are about 40 in place;
mobile speed cameras operating from the back of an unmarked estate car (often a Renault Laguna), or less frequently a policeman with a hand-held speed gun. There are nearly 1000 operating;
The latest is unmarked cars with a speed camera that can check speeds while they are under way. They use infra-red flashes so you don't know you have been photographed. There is a slightly greater tolerance allowed; 10 kph for 100 kph or less, 10% for greater than 100 kph as opposed to 5 kph and 5% for other speed cameras. There are currently 20.
There are also advisory speed cameras which show your speed on a panel as you approach, many of these, but not all, are followed by fixed speed camera. Nearly 2000 have been installed.
If you are stopped for speeding you can be fined on the spot and the fines have to be paid in cash there and then if you cannot prove that you are domiciled or working in France. If you cannot pay your car can be impounded.
If you are caught by a speed camera don't think you will automatically get away with it because you have a foreign registered car, you could find a penalty notice waiting for you when you get home.
Driving Lights
You must use side lights and dipped headlights at least at night or in poor visibility.
Front and rear fog lights can only be used when it is foggy or snowing (not when it is raining no matter how heavily).
You may use the front fog lights outside towns/villages as driving lights. You must switch them off if you meet, follow or overtake another vehicle.
People will flash their lights rapidly if they want the right of way or that they are coming up quickly behind you. These days this practice is not the courtesy that it once was and is most often reserved to those drivers who drive too fast and too close so the best thing to do is just get out of their way.
The French may use hand gestures or a single headlamp flash to indicate that you should proceed ahead of them.
Seat Belts
Every passenger must wear a seatbelt where fitted unless the passenger is obviously unable to or medically excused from wearing one. Passengers (children included) cannot share a seat belt. It is illegal for a child under the age of 10 to be in the front passenger seat unless: there aren't any rear seats; none of the rear seats have seat belts; all the rear seats are already occupied by children under 10. There are other rules governing the use of booster cushions and rear facing baby seats.
The 10 years old rule is not absolute but also takes into account the size/weight of the child (bigger child but under 10 or smaller child who is over 10 for instance).
Drinking and Driving
The legal limit of alcohol in the blood is .5g per litre. In practice you should think about a policy of not drinking and driving to be on the safe side, as the penalties for drink driving are severe, including having your licence confiscated. If you are above .8g per litre (the UK limit) you can have your licence confiscated, fined 4,500 Euros and even imprisoned.
The police often carry out spot checks and random breath tests.
The situation as regards carrying the breathalyser kits is that the law has come into effect but there is an indefinite suspension of any penalties for not complying. Considerable concern has been expressed about what the law is trying to achieve and the wastage caused by breathalyser kits which are time expired after 2 years.
We carry them but have never been asked to show that we do, but it is not worth the potential hassle just to save a couple of Euros.
Breakdowns
If you happen to breakdown whilst in France, you should switch on your hazard flashers, put on your fluorescent safety vest and put out at least one warning triangle at least 30 metres from the scene so that it is visible 100 metres from the vehicle. For example, if you have broken down less than 100 metres after a bend the warning triangle should be put out before the bend.
The exceptions to putting out the warning triangle are on an autoroute, if you are stopped on the hard shoulder and not obstructing the carriageway or if doing so would put your life in danger.
If you have a trailer or caravan with a gross laden weight of 500kg or more and you have to leave it by the roadside for any reason you also have to mark it with a warning triangle in the same way.
If you are on an autoroute or dual carriageway keep yourself and your passengers behind the crash barriers. If possible make sure everybody gets out on the side furthest away from the traffic. If you breakdown in the fast lane get everybody out of the vehicle and between the barriers on the central reservation, do not try and cross to the hard shoulder.
If you need assistance and you are on an autoroute then you phone for help using one of the emergency telephones (every 2 kilometres along the autoroute). Even if you are in an autoroute service area, you must still call for assistance using an emergency phone or asking at the services.
Autoroute assistance charges are fixed by the government. The breakdown companies that can operate on the autoroutes have to be licensed by the autoroute companies. Even if you have your own breakdown/emergency cover you will have to wait until you are off the autoroute before this cover can be used.
Accidents
In France you must provide assistance to a person in distress and doing so does not put your life or the lives of others in danger. Use an emergency phone to call for help or use your mobile and phone 112. Make sure you can describe where you are and what has happened, the appropriate emergency services will be sent to the scene. This obligation is part of the general Penal Code and not restricted to traffic accidents, failure to do so can result in prosecution and a substantial fine.
If you are involved in an accident and it is serious enough then call the police straight away, if somebody has been injured you must call the police. Having an accident statement form and completing that will make it easier when it comes to notifying your insurance company as will any photographs you take.
Use your hazard flashers, fluorescent jacket and warning triangle in the same way that you would for a breakdown.
I hope this helps and if anybody wants any clarification or the references for the source material let me know. Happy touring.
Grahame.
BTW, I have this as a pdf in case anybody wants to print it out. Don't seem to be able to add attachments here but if anybody wants a copy of the pdf let me know.
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Brit escapee to France 15 years ago
1980 Sprite Alpine C
2003 Hobby 540 UFe Exclusive
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Don't forget to leave a review of the French and other European campsites you have visited!
Message posted by Frogman1427/9/2013 at 11:49am
Outfit: Touring caravan. Location: Lancashire
Joined: 06/7/2007
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Frogman14
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We know a roundabout in a village we frequent, where the rules have almost endless permutations, depending on what you are and where from.
Tractor and trailor ---anyway they please, based on size of tractor.
Local--- depends which exit you want, take the shortest route.
Visitor ---- Depends largely on natonality, but British, strictly to the letter, --------when the roundabout is empty.
Common sense says take it easy , and think twice when in unusual territory.
FM
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Don't forget to leave a review of the French and other European campsites you have visited!
Message posted by saxo127/9/2013 at 6:03pm
Outfit: Location:
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saxo1
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If the lanes aren't marked then the rule is you should position yourself in the right hand lane if your intended exit is before the 12 oclock position and the left hand lane if after the 12 oclock position.
If you were going straight ahead and your exit was before the 12 oclock position the driver on your right would assume that you were going past 12oclock and would argue that you were in the wrong lane.
The advice given in Spain is if you are uncertain which exit you require you should remain in the right hand lane till you find your exit to avoid unecessary lane changes.
It's not much different to the UK rules but a mirror image,if a similar thing happened on a UK roundabout then who would have the right of way?I suspect the one on your LH side as you would be crossing their path.
Saxo1
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Message posted by Mucker188427/9/2013 at 8:07pm
Outfit: Karsten 350+Awnings &2x Kampa Classics Location: Derby.
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Quote: Originally posted by mattsurf on 27/9/2013I had a very close miss in Spain on a roundabout - Roundabout on Dual Carriageway, I was on left lane, going straight on, car in right lane decided to go right the way round, goind from right to left directly in my path. Somehow I managed to avoid a collision. Speaking to friends, they also had a very similar experience the day before. People drive as if teh driver on the right has priority on a roundabout, if so this is stupid, however, I would like to know what is the actual rule.
I've been reliably informed, and indeed have experience of it, that, for Spain, the kerbside car, ie on the right, has right of way ALL THE WAY ROUND THE ROUNDABOUT, so if you are in the left lane and going straight on, and he is right, he can still "cut across you" and turn left..... or even go full circle and double back.
Never put yourself in the situation where you wish to exit a Spanish roundabout with another vehicle on your right tail, unless you are 100% certain he is exiting before you, or alongside/parallel to you.
Best bet, even when turning left (at a roundabout) is to stay in the right hand lane, indicate left early on approach, and either force yourself in front of any neighbour, or hang back and let them get ahead.
Whilst in the right hand lane of a roundabout, you have right of way... but right of way doesn't necessarily mean you will avoid collision, more avoid blame!!
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2022: 20 nights/4 sites
2021: 30 nights/6 sites
2020: Just 24 nights. :-(
2019: A personal best 50 nights
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2017: 34 nights/8 camps
2016: 32 nights/8 camps
2015: 38 nights/11 camps
2014: 34 nights/10 camps
2013: 36 nights
From July 2012: 23 nights
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