After months of shortages and problems exchanging empty bottles for full, Calor Gas have now offically confirmed that some smaller size gas bottles will be permanently discontinued, including the very popular 4.5kg Butane and 3.9kg Propane sized cylinders.
If you've tried to get hold of a 4.5kg Calor butane gas bottle in the last couple of years, you've probably been not had much luck with any supplier. However, now, in a huge blow to many people, Calor have accounced that they will be "streamlining" their range, and discontinuing certain size cylinders.
Calor Range "Simplified"
In what Calor term as a "simplification" of the range ( certainly not simple for many existing customers) the sizes being removed from their range are the Cube, 3.9kg Propane, 4.5kg Butane, 6Lite Propane and 12kg Butane cylinders.
This means that customers won’t be able to buy new cylinders or exchange existing cylinders of these sizes for a refill.
Why are these sizes being discontinued?
Rogerio Lopes, Calor’s Chief Executive Officer, said: “Improving our cylinder experience is a priority for us as we enter 2023. The legacy of the pandemic has had a significant impact on our supply chain, operations, and our ability to provide a reliable service to our cylinder customers. The complexity of our existing range prevents us from improving the service. Therefore, we’ve taken the difficult decision to streamline our cylinder range, but it is necessary to simplify the business to improve overall reliability and availability to our customers.”
What can you do now?
If you currently use one of the discontinued sizes, Calor will replace your existing bottle for a new larger one, free of charge. For most sizes you will not require a new regulator, however if you do need one Calor will *not* cover the cost.
Calor suggest the following replacements:
3.9kg Propane - swap for 6kg Propane - No new regulator required
4.5kg Butane - swap for 7kg Butane - NEW REGULATOR REQUIRED
6kg "Cube" Butane - swap for 7kg Butane - No new regulator required
6kg Lite Propane - swap for 6kg Propane - No new regulator required
12kg Butane - swap for 15kg Butane - No new regulator required
If you currently have a 4.5kg Butane cylinder, you'll need a new regulator to switch to a 7kg Butane bottle. It is always recommended to use a gas-safe registered engineer when changing regulators, though Calor has produced a YouTube video, see below.
Campingaz Option for 4.5kg size
The smaller size 4.5kg butane bottles are extremely popular with many campers and campervan owners, however unfortunatley many campervans will not have space to replace the small 4.5 size with a larger Calor version and many tenters may not have room for the larger 7kg bottle.
These means their options are very limited, and realistically the only alternative is the Campingaz 907 which contains 2.72kg of gas. You'll obviously need a new regulator for this, and please note Campingaz gas is (far) more expensive than Calor.
What about the 6kg Lite cylinder?
If you prefer to use the lightweight bottles, unfortunately Calor have advised that they have no plans at present for a new light weight cylinder.
Our Bailey Pursuit, only 7 years old, takes 1 x 6kg and 1 x 3.9kg. The gas locker is central over the axle which is great for interior van space especially length and for weight distribution.
So no point changing existing small bottles free of charge as they won't fit. Will have to shell out for new bottles from another supplier instead.
Quote: Originally posted by navver on 21/1/2023
.... Will have to shell out for new bottles from another supplier instead.
If you're quick before demand strips the market bare, there are quite a few s/h 3.9kg Flogas cylinders around on various market places for a lot less than the official new cylinder rental agreement price!
Take a look at Flowgas website for the huge range of brands that they will accept for a refill exchange, it's not just Flowgas branded cylinders. Over the years, they've taken over numerous competitors!
Might be worth checking your locker dimensions to see if the slightly larger 5Kg Flowgas Gaslight cylinder fits, that'd widen your options on a replacement cylinder.
Thanks for nothing Calor, we'll have to carry an extra 5kg of gas now. Since we're having to change the connection anyway, I think we'll see what non Calor alternatives there are.
Further to the above, from Calors own site, the weight of a filled 4.5kg bottle is 10kg, but the weight of a filled 7kg bottle is 17kg. So 2 small bottles are 20kg, but 2 larger bottles are 34kg, thtas a whopping 14kg out of the payload. Brutal.
Quote: Originally posted by arthurdent on 26/1/2023
Further to the above, from Calors own site, the weight of a filled 4.5kg bottle is 10kg, but the weight of a filled 7kg bottle is 17kg. So 2 small bottles are 20kg, but 2 larger bottles are 34kg, thtas a whopping 14kg out of the payload. Brutal.
My caravan is exceptionally nose heavy in it's bare (MIRA) state (actually exceeds the caravan chassis limit by about 10Kg!), I struggle to get my nose weight down to the car/towbar figure with a single steel 6Kg, absolutely no scope for multiple or larger cylinders, I've gone over to the Flogas Gaslight 5Kg which eases the task. With some judicious loading I could possibly push to 2 of those with a little 'stretching' of actual nose weight when the cylinders were full. Nose weight is a far bigger issue for me than losing payload, meagre as that is!
Can I suggest we use the Calor complaints form to get them to reconsider, stating the reasons why this is A Bad Thing https://www.calor.co.uk/complaints
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 26/1/2023
I've gone over to the Flogas Gaslight 5Kg which eases the task.
[/QUOTE]Monty - can I ask what was involved in moving to Flogas, eg regulator, etc ?
Quote: Originally posted by arthurdent on 26/1/2023
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 26/1/2023
I've gone over to the Flogas Gaslight 5Kg which eases the task.
[/QUOTE]Monty - can I ask what was involved in moving to Flogas, eg regulator, etc ?
I've got a bulkhead regulator, so all I needed was a 27mm clip on (unregulated) coupling (£10 or so off ebay) for cylinder to mate with the 'Butane' pigtail I already had (at one point I'd used a 4.5Kg Calor Butane on my van, left over from my tenting days).
You can get adaptors to fit the 27mm clip on coupling (with 'Butane' outlet thread) so you can use your existing Propane pigtail. Personally, I'd rather just buy a new compatible Butane pigtail, that reduces the number of potential leak points and gets you a fresh hose good for 5-7 years safe use.
If you've got a cylinder regulator rather than a bulkhead one, then just buy a 27mm clip on regulator.
It's all straightforward stuff, no different to swapping a full for empty cylinder in terms of competency required.
Quote: Originally posted by arthurdent on 26/1/2023
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 26/1/2023
I've gone over to the Flogas Gaslight 5Kg which eases the task.
[/QUOTE]Monty - can I ask what was involved in moving to Flogas, eg regulator, etc ?
I've got a bulkhead regulator, so all I needed was a 27mm clip on (unregulated) coupling (£10 or so off ebay) for cylinder to mate with the 'Butane' pigtail I already had (at one point I'd used a 4.5Kg Calor Butane on my van, left over from my tenting days).
You can get adaptors to fit the 27mm clip on coupling (with 'Butane' outlet thread) so you can use your existing Propane pigtail. Personally, I'd rather just buy a new compatible Butane pigtail, that reduces the number of potential leak points and gets you a fresh hose good for 5-7 years safe use.
If you've got a cylinder regulator rather than a bulkhead one, then just buy a 27mm clip on regulator.
It's all straightforward stuff, no different to swapping a full for empty cylinder in terms of competency required.
[/QUOTE]Thanks Monty
Broke the news to a camping rally group I'm organising, and the lead balloon hitting the deck was tangible! They hadn't been aware, and it got a number of people scuttling around double checking what they used to be sure where they stood, and others with the certainty they had a problem, turns out 15% of our crowd are impacted by this. NOT HAPPY PEOPLE!
Amazed by the number of people who'd never heard of Flogas as an alternative to Calor (they've now been educated!), and some affected were thinking their only option was the Campingaz 907 cylinder (as recommended alternative by Calor!) which works out at a positively obscene £55/refill (that's £20/Kg!) (RRP) (as opposed to around £5/Kg for a Calor/Flogas larger cylinder) for the barely adequate 2.7Kg of gas it holds, reckon many would need 2 cylinders to cover a longer stay at a whopping £110 (refill x2 at RRP!), AND it's Butane so not really suitable for winter use (would you want to run your heating off a £20/Kg source anyway!)!
Calor are not alone in rationalising their cylinder range, Flowgas are withdrawing the 20mm clip on coupling cylinders, BUT at least they are continuing with the same size/capacity cylinders with a 21mm clip on coupling.
I know a few people with micro caravans and campers, trailer tents too IIRC, where the gas locker is small and can't accommodate say even a 6kg cylinder, you cant just increase the locker size for the convenience of Calor! Pretty sure I've seen in some site rules that 'loose' external gas cylinders are not permitted at all (I do remember the days of gas cylinders being a external fit on the A frame, but they were affixed rather than loose), CAMC 'discourages' such use, CCC prohibits larger than 15Kg, so their options are limited and Flogas may be their only reasonable choice.
Hope sufficient people change to Flogas to keep the market of the smaller cylinders viable for them, and they don't just disappear altogether! Even though I didn't have the constraints of a fixed locker, I've been tent camping with a 5Kg Gaslight cylinder in the car boot and it takes up a hell of a lot more precious space than a 3.9/4.5Kg cylinder!
I saw Camping Gaz 907 refill on sale in a French Super U for £23 !! Any one using those and travelling to Europe this summer it's worth buying there.
We have been using a Safefill refillable bottle for last five years, the initial outlay is high but it's paid for itself many times. The last fill cost £11.46 for 14 Lt at Morrisons. Other refillable bottles are available.
I've seen Campingaz 907s in French supermarkets MUCH cheaper than in UK for a number of years now, last year being no exception. What struck me was the huge UK price increase for a 907 over the past year! - from ridiculously expensive to obscenely so! Certainly looks more sensible to get your 907 refills in France if possible, if heading that way - found one today online at Mr. Bricolage for 30Euro/£26, that's HALF the UK price!
I've got several 907 cylinders from way back, and it was one of the options for our gas supply on our French tent camping trip last year, but calculated I'd either need to take/get two full cylinders, or go to the (great) inconvenience of driving out to a supermarket to get a refill for single cylinder part way through our stay to cover our needs, a 5Kg Flogas 'borrowed' from the caravan seemed to fit the bill as a better (and cheaper! - half the price/Kg of even a 'cheap' French 907 refill!) option, so that was the choice.
I can still get a Flogas 10Kg Gaslight refill from my local Costco for around £33, a very good price, that's £3.30/Kg compared with a Campingaz 907 refill even at best discount of around £19/Kg! I don't, neither do most of the people I know, use enough gas (for me, less than 10Kg over past 4 years!) to invest the notable sum in a refillable Safefill or the like, but if size wasn't an issue, changing from a Campingaz 907 to a Safefill would look far more viable even with my minimal usage!
So we found 3 of the 4.5kg Calor bottles left at our local caravan showroom, and swapped for 1 of those (our current cylinder was about 1/4 full), so we have 2 full cylinders which at our normal runrate should last us nearly 3 years. After that we'll likely convert to Flogas. Might also get one of those Campingaz converters for emergency use in Europe.
“From 1st February 2023, the Cube, 3.9kg Propane, 4.5kg Butane, 6Lite Propane and 12kg Butane will be discontinued. This means that customers won’t be able to buy new cylinders or exchange existing cylinders of these sizes for a refill”
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/2/2023
I didn't know there was a 12kg Butane. Maybe they meant Propane. The sizes I remember in Butane were 3.9kg, 7kg (like I use), and 15kg.
Definitely the 12kg butane is going, see here (copy and paste) https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/press-release-cylinder-range
The "dumpy" butane was 4.5kg, the 3.9kg was propane
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/2/2023
I didn't know there was a 12kg Butane. Maybe they meant Propane. The sizes I remember in Butane were 3.9kg, 7kg (like I use), and 15kg.
Definitely the 12kg butane is going, see here (copy and paste) https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/press-release-cylinder-range
The "dumpy" butane was 4.5kg, the 3.9kg was propane
I agree it does say 12kg Butane, but I have never seen one. It could be that they are relatively new though. I used to be a local agent for Calor in a village in Norfolk up to the end of 1989, and I certainly never handled one. The only ones I ever handled, apart from the larger Propane ones like the 47kg, were the ones I mentioned above.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/2/2023
I didn't know there was a 12kg Butane. Maybe they meant Propane. The sizes I remember in Butane were 3.9kg, 7kg (like I use), and 15kg.
Definitely the 12kg butane is going, see here (copy and paste) https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/press-release-cylinder-range
The "dumpy" butane was 4.5kg, the 3.9kg was propane
I agree it does say 12kg Butane, but I have never seen one. It could be that they are relatively new though. I used to be a local agent for Calor in a village in Norfolk up to the end of 1989, and I certainly never handled one. The only ones I ever handled, apart from the larger Propane ones like the 47kg, were the ones I mentioned above.
Definitely NOT an error, they do (did?) exist, although no sign on Calor website now, but still to be found on some distributors web sites, aimed at portable gas heater users. https://expressgasdelivery.com/product/12kg-butane-gas/
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 03/2/2023
I agree it does say 12kg Butane, but I have never seen one. It could be that they are relatively new though. I used to be a local agent for Calor in a village in Norfolk up to the end of 1989, and I certainly never handled one. The only ones I ever handled, apart from the larger Propane ones like the 47kg, were the ones I mentioned above.
Definitely NOT an error, they do (did?) exist, although no sign on Calor website now, but still to be found on some distributors web sites, aimed at portable gas heater users. https://expressgasdelivery.com/product/12kg-butane-gas/
Looks to me like they down-graded the 15kg bottles at some point. I switched to Calor from Unigas, who sold the same size cylinders but as 13kg. I used to service those portable gas heaters, and I still have one that I keep as a back-up should my central heating pack up, and it has a Calor 15kg cylinder in it. I also have a spare 15kg bottle out the back of my house. It was over 30 years ago that I stopped being a stockist when I moved home from Norfolk to Hertfordshire.
Quote: Originally posted by DaveS1 on 06/2/2023
What tickles me is that it is all being done to "improve customer service"
DaveS1
[/QUOTE]Aye, that old chestnut - "we're doing it for you"
Car camping customers who use small Calor Gas cylinders will cease to be customers; caravan, domestic and industrial users of larger gas cylinders will get the same service. If they don't have to deliver so many gas cylinders they'll simply use smaller or fewer lorries. Hence this is an improvement in customer service.
Spring, autumn and especially winter campers need propane or at least a propane/butane mix on cold days. The existing 907 Campingaz cylinders (they are discontinuing 901 and 904 cylinders to concentrate on automated 907 refilling) are not designed to use a winter propane/butane mix. The use of Campingaz 907 is not therefore a substitute for the loss of small Calor Gas propane cylinders.
The ferry companies and the Channel Tunnel are making it unlawful to transport any size or type of gas cylinder across the Channel in a car. We may in future have to buy disposable Campingaz cans in French supermarkets when we go car camping in Europe.
Since disposable gas cylinders are more expensive to use than refillable cylinders you may as well just go out and have a takeaway when camping in Europe.
The ferry companies and the Channel Tunnel are making it unlawful to transport any size or type of gas cylinder across the Channel in a car. We may in future have to buy disposable Campingaz cans in French supermarkets when we go car camping in Europe.
LPG cylinders illegal on Ferries/Tunnel? This old chestnut just keeps coming up, and has done for a good number of years, and I can find no authoritative origin for it, nor impending implementation! Where does this notion come from?
All the ferry companies I've checked and seemingly the tunnel follow the Government's Maritime and Coastguard Agency 'Marine Guidance Note' MGN 545(M+F) "Guidance on the transport of dangerous goods as defined by the International Maritime Dangerous Goods (IMDG) Code when carried in a private vehicle not in commercial use or by a foot passenger on a RoRo ship"
The relevant bit states: For "Cars/campervans/motorhomes/caravans" - "Butane/Propane (maximum of 3 cylinders, the combined weight of which must not exceed 47 kg) for lighting, cooking or heating purposes only."
As this 'rumour' surfaces EVERY year, I check this EVERY year for our annual camping trip to France, and have done so for years, just to make sure we don't get any expensive cylinders confiscated or worse repercussions. The various checks on the car/boot contents that we have been subjected to over the years have ALWAYS had the gas cylinder(s) spotted as we don't especially hide them, and never had any comment about it/them let alone anything worse!
IF there is any impending ban, then I'd be very interested indeed, as that would be a major inconvenience to us, and locally obtained disposable cartridges just would not suffice as an alternative to a bulk cylinder! - But I'd want to see it stated by some authoritative body, to counter EVERYTHING I've read so far, not just as a comment on a forum, valuable and welcome as that may be as a 'heads up' to seek the info in full!
Quote: Originally posted by navver on 21/1/2023
So no point changing existing small bottles free of charge as they won't fit. Will have to shell out for new bottles from another supplier instead.
I don't think I've ever paid for a bottle (apart from my Safefill). I've always found empty ones in recycling centers and they gave them to me free of charge.
It would be worth looking for flogas etc in these places. I saw a few last week.
Things have changed at a lot of recycling centers in as much as it's probably more than the Cleansing Operatives job is worth to give away anything(including gas bottles) to a member of the public.
Simple cost effective option to save you guys out there. Keep your small 3.9, 4.7 or 4.5kg bottles. Buy a readily available larger bottle, let's say a 13 or 19kg propane. Check the following item number on ebay, £30 from a trusted seller in the Midlands (224568592215). You can decant from the larger bottle to you're smaller bottle as and when needed. Won't overfill as gravity fed, not pump fed so no danger although best left overnight as its a slower process. I have 4 x 10 kg safefill bottles for my large Bailey alicanto grande faro. Two for the side locker and two as a spare at home for my gas heater due to cost of living but that's another story. I've helped a few local friends this way who were panicking. Heath Robinson set up it may be but trust me you won't regret it
Check the eBay item number listed in my last post and you will see the pipe has two pol connectors on each end. Simply connect the two bottles. Then place the full Calor, flogas, safefill (or whichever brand bottle you choose) upside down on a workbench, wheelie bin or similar obviously being careful that it doesn't fall. Ensure the small bottle is on the ground and open the taps. After a couple of hours or so you will have one full bottle at your feet. Shut valves on the bottles and disconnect till next fill needed
Neither did I until a friend told me about the transfer pipe. Honestly it's been a lifesaver for a couple of friends since the bottle discontinuation. Obviously LPG is liquid so just flows like water. If there's a group of you it's also possibly worth investing in say a 10kg safefill bottle and the pipe. My safefills cost about £200 each then roughly £14 each to fill at my local morissons so that's about two and a half refills for the small bottle. Just check local lpg filling stations near you or on the safefill website. No brainer in my eyes
Quote: Originally posted by Markjuliec on 20/3/2023
Use a calor to calor in that case. Legal or illegal sod calor the way they have gone about this
It's CERTAINLY not without risk, which convenience/profits of Calor aside, is not something to dismiss too lightly. As with many things, all well whilst it works OK, BUT a need to consider what happens when it goes wrong!
The expansion ratio of LPG is 1:270. This means that one litre of liquid, if vaporised, will occupy a volume 270 times greater than one litre of its liquid state. That's 270 litres of neat gas!
The Air/Gas ratio for correct combustion is around 16:1, so that 1 Litre leak becomes a 4320 litre OR 4.3 Cubic Meter BOMB when mixed with air!
Scale it up or down according to your leak size as you wish, but it's gonna go BANG in a big way with even as little as a static spark from your jumper, or a spark from a spanner/cylinder hitting stone/concrete that's been dislodged during the panic of discovering a leak!
I was about a mile from the Buncefield Oil Depot in Hertfordshire and virtually blown out of bed by the blast ripping through the house when it went 'BANG' in 2005 with a leak, that flattened surrounding buildings like a war zone, registered 2.4 on the Richter scale, was heard hundreds of miles away even across the channel, and reckoned to be the biggest explosion in Europe since WW2, so I DO NOT underestimate the potential of explosions!
There is a very good reason such extreme lengths are taken to maintain safety around industrial LPG handling sites, a bloke in his back yard (or even worse, garden shed/garage!!!) is NOT going to meet those very often!
Do it if you must, but my life/wellbeing/home is worth more than saving only a few quid, is yours?
Walking to the shops can be declared a risk in that case. If ventilated absolutely no chance of that happening with the minor quantity used. If that's an issue why would safefill bottles, cars etc be allowed to be refilled on the forecast.
We are not going to bother with it either. We weren't quite blown out of bed by the Buncefield explosion. It was like an enormous clap of thunder here, just north of Luton
We heard that explosion here in East Herts too, right on the Essex border. We could see the smoke on the horizon as well.
The pressure in those bottles is enormous and it's certainly not a risk I would want to take. I have also seen an exploded 15kg Calor gas bottle after it had cleared a coach depot building about 18 feet high and 70 feet long. It had gone clean over the roof lengthwise without touching it. That was up in Norfolk in the late 1970s, and I am really glad I was about a mile away when it went up.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 20/3/2023
We heard that explosion here in East Herts too, right on the Essex border. We could see the smoke on the horizon as well.
The pressure in those bottles is enormous and it's certainly not a risk I would want to take. I have also seen an exploded 15kg Calor gas bottle after it had cleared a coach depot building about 18 feet high and 70 feet long. It had gone clean over the roof lengthwise without touching it. That was up in Norfolk in the late 1970s, and I am really glad I was about a mile away when it went up.
Think I learned my respect for pressurised/explosive gas cylinders from my Dad who worked for BOC, and had a tale or two about cylinders gone 'rogue' and what their potential was!!!!
You're tale Colin, reminds me of my college days and an almost forgotten incident, when a workman's hut in the car park tried to relocate to the Moon! Small propane cylinder went up (literally!), blast/flames wrote off surrounding cars, others had damage, cylinder remains was found a long way from where it started after 'flying' for a while! Bit of a flap with College admin who were faced with a LOT of very angry car owners (staff and students!) seeking compensation, and even more concerned it could be allowed to happen at all in a public place! Probably lucky we didn't get showered with broken glass in the building, but thankfully just too far away! Fortunately no people were nearby or injured, but that was sheer chance!
Not rolling in spare cash, but not desperate enough to save a few quid to take the risks!
Decanting is a great risk:
As many welders & lpg users in the trade know, a qualified person is only allowed legally to refill lpg cylinders as unlike lpg vehicles these simple cylinders have no PRD (Pressure Relief Device) & many lethal problems can arise from "overfilling".
Only 80% of the cylinder volume is the maximum safe permitted amount, if not there are high risks of fuel discharge, leaks & damage to equipment if the extra 20% is not used immediately to relieve the overfill & travelling to warmer climates will undoubtedly exacerbate the danger..... if that does not cause concern one, then how about an internal leak which may well result in an eternal sleep & the risk of explosion should be obvious to those who work with lpg.
I understand the logic behind decanting but please remember:
LPG is LIQUID PETROLEUM GAS,
not to be treated as wine, beer or water.
Sorry for putting a downer on this but it needs to be said for those who are unaware.
The complaint form is now working. Thanks to who posted link. What annoys me is i emailed them directly last year asking if the rumor was true as it was doing the rounds on social media. They assured me it was untrue.
The very same in the several recycling centres where I live & those in surrounding areas.
I wish people could "recycle" from certain items at the Recycling Centres.
I managed to acquire (cost me £10) a 7kg Butane Flo Gas Canister last week, the old blue 20mm style.
In theory it can be exchanged for a 4.5kg Butane, so I phoned Flo Gas, who were very helpful. They said that at the moment, because of the high demand due to the Calor discontinuations, they could only swap it for another 7kg (although swapping over to the newer 21mm was not a problem) so only an exact size swap is currently possible.
They said they were working hard to source additional canisters and, although they couldn't guarantee a date, they thought it would only be a couple of months before they could swap sizes within a category.
I'm in no hurry as I have 1 full and 1 part used 4.5kg Butane and a roughly half full 3.9kg Propane.
I think what I require is a 21mm to bulkhead clip on adaptor? This would then attach to the Butane pigtail which goes to the bulkhead regulator.
I've just looked at this article from Practical Boat Owner that shows a message from Calor that confirms the U-turn.
I've already changed my 3.9 Propane to Flogas and had a replacement cylinder lined up to ready change my Butane over once my two Calor 4.5kg had run out. Not sure whether to change or not now!
Still no mention of the return of these cylinders on the Calor web site, and certainly not showing in the cylinder choice/info!
Implied in the PB article that there is a cylinder shortage, so expect some time before they become easily available again. Suspect there must be an awful lot of cylinders languishing in sheds and garages that users have now superseded by FloGas equivalent and will likely never find their way back into the supply chain!
I've got a full Butane 4.5Kg that I used in my regular tent camping days, really only kept as an emergency backup in case I can't get a FloGas 5Kg Gaslight that I use in the caravan after swapping over from Calor 6Kg due to the years of supply issues! That's one cylinder that's been out of circulation for a number of years now! On the rare occasions these days I do go tent camping, I use the FloGas 5Kg Gaslight out of the caravan in preference to the Calor Butane 4.5Kg.
Friends with micro-caravans/campers were VERY put out by Calor's original decision to drop these small cylinders, and their simply idiotic/contemptuous suggestion of replacing with a larger capacity cylinder, which was patently not an option with a small gas locker, or probable worse, using the minuscule Campingaz 907 at it's EXTORTIONATE cost. Seems from PB article that the boating fraternity had the same problem! - Did Calor not understand their market AT ALL!!!!!!
I've gone over to FloGas and will not be going back to Calor unless actively forced to do so! Their contempt and incompetence towards customers with the diabolical supply shortages that went on for years, the dropping of the (faulty) 'lite' cylinder that they falsely promised a never materialising replacement for, and finally dropping the small cylinder range, in my view makes them a wholly unreliable supplier, and they've lost my custom for good!
I would say, the return of the small Calor cylinders was good news, but strongly feel Calor are too unreliable to be trusted, and these cylinders are unlikely to be in wide and reliable circulation for some time, if ever, if Calor follow their what has become 'normal' business practices of past few years! - wouldn't be at all surprised if due to their own influences, they decide in the future that the market is not viable, and drop them again!
Fingers are crossed & hoping for a positive outcome for their disappointed customers.... ..
... but not confident as the original decision to phase out the smaller design had zero consideration for existing customers.
I am still bewildered as to why...
... "Why Calor? Why do it in the first place?
Did your 'marketing experts' deliberately wish to lose customers to your rivals?"
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 02/1/2024
Friends with micro-caravans/campers were VERY put out by Calor's original decision to drop these small cylinders, and their simply idiotic/contemptuous suggestion of replacing with a larger capacity cylinder, which was patently not an option with a small gas locker, or probable worse, using the minuscule Campingaz 907 at it's EXTORTIONATE cost. Seems from PB article that the boating fraternity had the same problem! - Did Calor not understand their market AT ALL!!!!!!
The boating fraternity certainly did have the same problem. All 3 of the boats I owned over the years were fitted with gas bottle lockers that took 4.5kg Calor cylinders and it would not have been possible to fit larger ones. The use of gas on boats is far more risky than with caravans as the gas is heavier than air. If there is a leak anywhere it will not go out of a vent as with a caravan, unless the leak is in the gas locker which is usually made from metal and vented over the side. Leaking gas from elsewhere on the boat will find its way down into the boat's bilges. Consequently boat owners are discouraged from carrying any more gas than is absolutely necessary.
I guess my choice is between a supplier that seems to be more customer focussed or one with a wider network of suppliers, frequent supply issues and no regard for their customer base (or didn't they even think it through properly?)
On balance, staying with my decision to change to Flogas is probably the best course of action.
Quote: Originally posted by ukros on 02/1/2024
Good points made by Monty15, hilux and Colin21.
I guess my choice is between a supplier that seems to be more customer focussed or one with a wider network of suppliers, frequent supply issues and no regard for their customer base (or didn't they even think it through properly?)
On balance, staying with my decision to change to Flogas is probably the best course of action.
FloGas claim to have the greatest number of outlets! I was certainly cautious about changing from Calor, but a little research allayed fears.
A year or so back when Calor had a real problem with supply of certain cylinders, and focused on domestic supplies rather than leisure, I noticed a number of outlets either changing completely to FloGas or duel stocking both brands! FloGas never seemed to suffer supply issues in quite the same way as Calor, even when they were faced with a what can only have been a massive rise in demand on their products, they rose to the challenge and managed the situation pretty well it seemed, and then were able to supply without problem a short time after!
Seems that Calor has really gone downhill. At one time they were THE ones to go to, their name was synonymous with the bottled gas industry and bottled gas country-wide was often just referred to as Calor Gas. How the mighty have fallen.
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 02/1/2024
FloGas claim to have the greatest number of outlets! I was certainly cautious about changing from Calor, but a little research allayed fears.
That's probably true, but many of their outlets seem to be roofing companies stocking mostly Propane in larger sizes.
They also have all the B&Q branches, but they only stock a very limited range: suitable for barbecues and patio heaters.
Whereas Calor stockists tend to carry a large range. Most campsites also seem to only stock Calor or Camping Gaz.
There are a couple of general Flogas stockists not too far away from me, but nothing like number of Calor stockists available.
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 02/1/2024
FloGas claim to have the greatest number of outlets! I was certainly cautious about changing from Calor, but a little research allayed fears.
That's probably true, but many of their outlets seem to be roofing companies stocking mostly Propane in larger sizes.
They also have all the B&Q branches, but they only stock a very limited range: suitable for barbecues and patio heaters.
Whereas Calor stockists tend to carry a large range. Most campsites also seem to only stock Calor or Camping Gaz.
There are a couple of general Flogas stockists not too far away from me, but nothing like number of Calor stockists available.
There are a few places that don't seem to publicise that they stock FloGas, such as B and M stores with garden centres, and even Costco does if you have a members card. It does depend on where in the country you are to some extent, I can find more Flogas outlets around me than Calor! And of course Calor have built themselves a reputation of late for NOT having stock of popular sizes in many outlets! It's true enough that Calor still dominates on campsites, but for how long if they alienate campers with the need for smaller cylinders!
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 02/1/2024
Seems that Calor has really gone downhill. At one time they were THE ones to go to, their name was synonymous with the bottled gas industry and bottled gas country-wide was often just referred to as Calor Gas. How the mighty have fallen.
Calor seem to have been their own worst enemy, they have got it wrong at just about every turn! Difficult to see how any competent management could have allowed it to happen in so many ways and for so long! Think they may have believed they were the dominant vendor and couldn't lose business! - how wrong!
FloGas on the other hand have been very shrewd indeed, they have acquired numerous small, otherwise pretty insignificant brands (look at how many cylinder brands they will take for refill!) over past few years, they have taken offloaded business from the likes of Shell and BP (the great Gaslight cylinders!), they have quietly built themselves an empire AND built the infrastructure to support it, now they are the brand to be reckoned with it seems!
I'm not in favour of one brand being dominant in any market place, the consumer rarely benefits from that, but Calor have written their own destiny with perhaps the greatest business sin, undermining confidence in their brand, not quite a Gerald Ratner 'crap' moment, but they've awoken customers to rival brands that seemingly meet market needs better!
Maybe Calor just got complacent? They have been around longer than most. Several companies have come and gone, Unigas for example, so perhaps Calor just thought they couldn't lose.
Personally I don't like one company dominating the market either, that isn't good for anyone.
I'm pleased that I've moved to Safefill. The bottles are much lighter than Calor and a refill cost a lot less too.
Safefill do three different sizes, 5kg, 7.5kg and 10kg.
Is FloGas the same as LPG or Autogas? (Apologies if that's been asked already, I've not read the previous 5 pages.)
We get our LPG for the MH underslung gas tank from Morrison's Supermarket fuel stations. But the nozzle has a locking mechanism, I don't know if that's compatible with the canisters.
We use the app "myLPG.eu" (others apps will be available). Our local Calor LPG site closed the LPG refill stanchion because they can't get the part to repair it, but they weren't the cheapest.
No Fiona, in this context Flogas is a supplier of exchangeable (full for empty) cylinders, just like Calor. They do have divisions doing bulk delivery to domestic/industrial/commercial premises though, so a big player in the LPG market.
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