Hi everyone
The latest Boxer/Ducato Euro 6b based motorhomes like our 2020 Bailey Autograph have smart/intelligent alternators. These only produce around 12.2v after the first 20 minutes or so of driving (after the surge in current from starting the engine has been replaced). This can mean that after a long drive you can arrive at your destination with the leisure battery only charged to 12.2v (even if it was at a higher level on departure). This is not a problem when going to a site with EHU, but if you arrive on a site with no EHU and want to rely on your 12v leisure battery for lighting, TV, heating pumps/fans, etc the time you have available is compromised considerably. With a standard, non-smart, alternator you'd arrive with near 14v of charge to last a considerable time.
Any suggestions as to how to solve this problem on the occasions when en route to no EHU sites or, for example, French aires. So far the options seem to be:
1. A battery to battery charger. Very expensive but simple to fit. However, not sure if this can be used without disconnecting the existing charging system.
2. Fooling the ECU to tell the alternator to keep charging at 14.4v permanently. Peugeot says this is not possible.
3. Plugging an inverter into the cab 12v socket (180 watts) and running a 240v smart charger from the inverter connected directly to the leisure battery. Cheap, (particularly if you have an inverter and a charger already and ensure the charger amperage is within the capacity of the 12v socket) and simple. However, not sure if this would interfere with any existing systems.
Thanks. I can't find any b to b chargers for less than £200. Where did you see one for £80, can't see any on vanbitz's website? At that price it's definitely an option if it doesn't interfere with the existing charging electronics.
Quote: Originally posted by chris4 on 26/1/2021
Hi everyone
The latest Boxer/Ducato Euro 6b based motorhomes like our 2020 Bailey Autograph have smart/intelligent alternators. These only produce around 12.2v after the first 20 minutes or so of driving (after the surge in current from starting the engine has been replaced). This can mean that after a long drive you can arrive at your destination with the leisure battery only charged to 12.2v (even if it was at a higher level on departure). This is not a problem when going to a site with EHU, but if you arrive on a site with no EHU and want to rely on your 12v leisure battery for lighting, TV, heating pumps/fans, etc the time you have available is compromised considerably. With a standard, non-smart, alternator you'd arrive with near 14v of charge to last a considerable time.
Any suggestions as to how to solve this problem on the occasions when en route to no EHU sites or, for example, French aires. So far the options seem to be:
1. A battery to battery charger. Very expensive but simple to fit. However, not sure if this can be used without disconnecting the existing charging system.
2. Fooling the ECU to tell the alternator to keep charging at 14.4v permanently. Peugeot says this is not possible.
3. Plugging an inverter into the cab 12v socket (180 watts) and running a 240v smart charger from the inverter connected directly to the leisure battery. Cheap, (particularly if you have an inverter and a charger already and ensure the charger amperage is within the capacity of the 12v socket) and simple. However, not sure if this would interfere with any existing systems.
Anybody had any bright ideas?
Welcome.
Firstly, the following link may supply some useful information to you or anyone reading this thread.
Secondly, if this is, as it appears to be, a new vehicle and it has a fault
either in the leisure battery or charging circuit, whether through component failure or poor design, surely it is a matter to pursue through the supplying dealer or manufacturer?
------------- Never argue with fools........They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Thanks. Yes, I've read that article and several other similar ones.
I've tried Bailey and Peugeot. Peugeot says there's nothing they can do, the alternator is functioning as designed. Bailey initially were adamant that the Boxer does not have a smart alternator. Eventually conceded that it may have but shouldn't be a problem.....
Thanks, yes just spotted those cheaper, non smart, btob chargers. Looks like that's the way to go and have a remote switch so it only turned on when needed.
we are part exxing our BA 2015 for a new Bailey Adamo, later this year (its on order)
i have a Sterling 50A b2b already fitted along with a battery master in the BA, i will prob remove them and re use them in the Adamo then, based on your experience !
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 27/1/2021
Driving with dipped headlights on should keep it charging at 14.4 volts due to the extra load on it.
Thanks. I've already tried that as well as having the heating fan, aircon, heated mirrors, but it has no effect! Obviously a very efficient alternator...which is a good thing!!
Quote: Originally posted by MisterB1959 on 27/1/2021
we are part exxing our BA 2015 for a new Bailey Adamo, later this year (its on order)
i have a Sterling 50A b2b already fitted along with a battery master in the BA, i will prob remove them and re use them in the Adamo then, based on your experience !
Maybe wise! The Bailey person I spoke to said they had no plans to modify the charging system and thought it was not a problem "as most people plug in to EHU"...Although he did concede that the extra-high output during brake-regeneration could be a problem for some gel type batteries.
In your existing Bailey have you simply wired the battery to battery charger alongside the existing charger/PDU, or have you replaced the original unit? I'm considering a cheap b-to-b charger alongside the installed system but I am wary about damaging the existing electronics.
Enjoy your new Bailey! Let's hope we canget out and use them later this year!
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 27/1/2021
Driving with dipped headlights on should keep it charging at 14.4 volts due to the extra load on it.
Thanks. I've already tried that as well as having the heating fan, aircon, heated mirrors, but it has no effect! Obviously a very efficient alternator...which is a good thing!!
I have smart alternator and had same fridge problem . Have plug in volt meter in cigar lighter. Switch on lights and volts go to 14.4 volts and fridge runs then switch lights off When I see volts drop I give lights switch on and volts then increase to 14. 4 volts and fridge then runs. Lights then off again after a few minutes . This method has worked for me over 5 years now keeping fridge cold
i havent modified anything original just added to it and it all seems to work fine !
BA
as regards being wise, are you referring to replacing the BA? we are really happy with it but want an island bed that we can sit up in bed in and read, drink our morning drinks etc. we are very happy with our BA but were offered a great deal by Alan Kerr Ltd ....
Quote: Originally posted by MisterB1959 on 27/1/2021
i havent modified anything original just added to it and it all seems to work fine !
BA
as regards being wise, are you referring to replacing the BA? we are really happy with it but want an island bed that we can sit up in bed in and read, drink our morning drinks etc. we are very happy with our BA but were offered a great deal by Alan Kerr Ltd ....
No, I meant it's wise to take the dc to dc charger with you. This is our second Bailey Autograph and we too have been really pleased with them both. Thanks for your comments, I think I'll go with your solution and just add a dc to dc charger.
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 27/1/2021
Quote: Originally posted by chris4 on 27/1/2021
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 27/1/2021
Driving with dipped headlights on should keep it charging at 14.4 volts due to the extra load on it.
Thanks. I've already tried that as well as having the heating fan, aircon, heated mirrors, but it has no effect! Obviously a very efficient alternator...which is a good thing!!
I have smart alternator and had same fridge problem . Have plug in volt meter in cigar lighter. Switch on lights and volts go to 14.4 volts and fridge runs then switch lights off When I see volts drop I give lights switch on and volts then increase to 14. 4 volts and fridge then runs. Lights then off again after a few minutes . This method has worked for me over 5 years now keeping fridge cold
Fridge works fine even on low output. As does everything else. I think the issue is that the latest alternator set-ups output charge based upon total battery remaining capacity, rather than just voltage. I can run the engine with fridge on, headlights on, heater, aircon etc etc but the output voltage remains at 12.2v, except after starting when it sits at 14.4v for 20 minutes, or on over-run when the regenerative braking kicks in and puts out 15.5v.....I think the only solution is a dc to dc battery charger.
This is a well known issue with smart alternators, old split charge relays don’t work properly the only solution is a DC-DC charger from the likes of CTEK or Victron.
Lots of converters have not yet caught up with it and are still fitting things like Sargeant control panels that don’t work with smart alternators. I would go back to the converter or dealer as you have been sold something that is out of date and not fit for purpose.
Quote: Originally posted by Broadside on 28/1/2021
This is a well known issue with smart alternators, old split charge relays don’t work properly the only solution is a DC-DC charger from the likes of CTEK or Victron.
Lots of converters have not yet caught up with it and are still fitting things like Sargeant control panels that don’t work with smart alternators. I would go back to the converter or dealer as you have been sold something that is out of date and not fit for purpose.
Thanks. Neither the dealer nor the manufacturer thinks it is a problem....In fact the manufacturer initially insisted none of their base vehicles actually have smart alternators, until I explained the voltage output variance shown at the cab cigar lighter.
I've come to the conclusion that a b to b charger is required but I'm trying to find out if I can simply install this alongside the existing PDU without damaging its electronics.
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Topic: Smart alternator and leisure battery
via mobile 26/1/2021 at 10:37pm
