With no listing status (thats a big miss wasnt it after all those years), I'm wondering if, in principle and the paperwork is all up together, the landowners can be legally forced to use the insurance payout to rebuild the pub to the state it was before they knocked it down - i.e. rebuild it as a burnt out shell.
Obviously one shouldnt make assumptions that the landowners,who bought it two weeks before, hired the digger the week ahead, blocked access to the building (as a byproduct the fire brigade couldnnt get to it), then knocked it down against council instruction, before disappearing off the face of the earth, did it deliberately. Probably all just one big coincidence..........
The pub closed because presumably it couldn't make enough money (not enough customers).
Now the locals are up in arms because they loved the pub that, presumably, they didn’t patronise enough.
Big difference between the building being closed as a pub and being knocked down.
Locals in the current climate can't afford to go to the pub enough in most villages and towns to keep them open - its all about tourism. I'd be gutted if the Bell down our road were to shut, but do I go there enough to keep it running? No. Can't afford to.
It was a big tourist pub and was sold as an ongoing business - quite possible that the success of it was the root of the reason to sell it - that said, it failed to garner much market interest, probably related to high running costs and much needed maintenance.
There arent many smaller buyers who could afford to do it up (investment vs period of return), and pubcos like Marstons (with 1700ish pubs) are focussing on hotel porfolios as pubs - even pubs with good restaurants - arent such a good prospect at the moment.
Marstons could very likely have sold it as a valuable asset to balance the value of their portfolio/bail out a number of other pubs with poor book value - they would have made good money from the sale. Alternatively, they surely would have known the value of the land to the people who bought it, so its very possible they put it up for sale as an ongoing business to get a better price from the final buyers (in full acknowledgment that it would be never reopened).
I also have some suspicions about the selling related to the timings of applications for listing it and what that would do to prospects for improvement of the site.
There are examples of local people buying their local pub. (Ok the one in Knoydart is somewhat remote but it’s just reopened after refurbishment, including a new small hydro scheme for power.) I’ve read of other pubs in big English villages.
I don’t believe the Crooked House can be rebuilt because they can’t replicate the reasons for it becoming crooked - it wasn’t built like that to start with.
Buy & burn, not novel. At least the sniffer dog found evidence of an accelerant, otherwise it was an electrical fault, wasn’t it….
For what it's worth, I think it was known as the wonky pub, but probably had a "proper" name too. It became wonky due to subsidence caused by coal mining.
This led it to become known as Siden House — 'siden' being a Black Country term for wonky — before taking its Crooked House name in 2002. At its peak, the pub could pull in national and even international crowds, and pound coins could be seen to roll along the bar against the direction of gravity.9 Aug 2023
------------- XVI yes?
As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.
Was The Glynne arms until the early 2000s I believe. I believe they were trying to get together to buy it but weren't given the time, sadly. One of our local pubs has been bought out assisted to use it as a training base for "special needs" school, which has it set as a pub/restaurant and uses it to train young people to work in hospitality:
https://theweaverspub.co.uk/
The only difference you'd notice is the lighting needs to be on the bright side.
We have a floor maltings in Warminster and I brew my own beer (although haven’t done for a while due to other stuff), and make my own cider. I’m also a member of Camra, where I see our focus has evolved over the years to preserving the breweries (and bottled beers etc), beer festivals, political campaigning, and less of a focus on pubs which are unsustainable.
Just because it closed as a pub it doesn't give the new owners the right to burn it to the ground, obstruct the emergency services and bulldoze it without permission.
It was a 200 year old building of great local historical interest, it's irrelevant whether or not it was supported as a pub by the locals.
It appears the new owners have form; a landfill site they own elsewhere mysteriously caught fire a few years ago costing a small fortune to deal with.
They were apparently in a dispute with Marstons as they shared access to their landfill site in Himley with the Crooked House; conveniently that is no longer an issue now that they have acquired the land and destroyed the pub.
One of the beer/pub related groups I belong to commented that pubs appeared to be rather very prone to fires after they changed hands, as this one is not the first one that had gone up in flames after they were sold and changed hands.
Coincidence? Yeah right!
DK
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If they have burnt it down it isnt arson - it's their property, you can't commit arson on your own property. The only things they could "fail" at are the insurance company refusing to pay out if there is any insurance(so its an investigation into insurance fraud), failing to comply with council regulations, and potentially a charge related to attendance by the fire brigade to a deliberate house fire.
These people are millionaires and will have sought legal advice before they did all this so I'm sure they'll be ok (IF they did all this).
Quote: Originally posted by Mitchamitri on 25/8/2023
If they have burnt it down it isnt arson - it's their property, you can't commit arson on your own property. The only things they could "fail" at are the insurance company refusing to pay out if there is any insurance(so its an investigation into insurance fraud), failing to comply with council regulations, and potentially a charge related to attendance by the fire brigade to a deliberate house fire.
These people are millionaires and will have sought legal advice before they did all this so I'm sure they'll be ok (IF they did all this).
Not strictly accurate. See para 2
Destroying or damaging property.
(1)A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.
(2)A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—
(a)intending to destroy or damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be destroyed or damaged; and
(b)intending by the destruction or damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered;
shall be guilty of an offence.
(3)An offence committed under this section by destroying or damaging property by fire shall be charged as arson.
I think its been done to 'clear' the land for development. Any planning applications from the owners, or anyone remotely connected to them needs the finest scrutiny - then refused. Its as plain as day why it was torched and cleared.
Its nothing new though, its been going on for years. Morrisons supermarket bought a derelict, but listed building, adjacent to their store in Keighley many years ago. The building was in the way of a new car park entrance. At 6 am one sunday morning - when the local council were all tucked up in bed, diggers rolled up and made it disappear within half a day. Gone, just a leveled piece of land. They got fined the equivalent of £25 for you or I.
Amazing family weekend with old steam engines, classic car displays, market stalls, and full catering and bar. And camping on site - Save £25 by booking in advance.
Topic: Crooked House Pub
via mobile 23/8/2023 at 9:54am
