Just saw this mentioned in a previous post. I’m in my eighties and dread my house having to be sold to pay for care home fees if needed.
I’ve worked all my life until I was seventy four. I was a single parent most of my working life and I worked very hard to provide a home for my children and myself.I have just paid off the mortgage and the house is now totally mine.
I’d love to protect it for my children but don’t know anything about this.
Please can anyone make this clearer. Thank you.
Sorry can't help with Legalities.
However my missis, used to run a care home. She often would come home telling me that one of the residents family was being forced to sell their home, the residents that is, to pay for the care home stay. Then in another breath she would say.....You work all your life, skimp and save, to leave family members a bit of something. Only to have to pay it out on care unbe noing what's to come!
On the other hand, missis used to have residents that, lived in council houses all their lives saved NOWT...All theirs are funded by government....( Us tax payers ).
Who is right? who is wrong? just the way it it is i'me afraid.
She did say tho!!!! that deeds for houses and money, must be given away or signed over, seven years before going into care establishments. So as not to lose the free!! ( tax payer ) service.
You might have to get legal professional to check its still the same rules today.
I’ve paid tax all my life over sixty years and I’m still paying it. I’ve got a POA for health and welfare stating I must not be kept alive by artificial means PEG etc. That would be a biggest nightmare, my house being sold to pay for me being kept alive with no quality of life whatsoever.
It's very difficult to generalise Kevin-T. I certainly have mixed feelings about the subject. Some might say that those who have had good jobs and been well enough off to be able to afford to buy a house, have accumulated a great deal of wealth, albeit tied up in a property, so why shouldn't they pay? Whereas others, often essential workers, have had low paid jobs, haven't been able to afford to buy a house, nor save very much so why shouldn't they be cared for when they get old? Often those people have worked hard all their lives too, sometimes doing thankless tasks serving people much better off than themselves, then they retire with nothing. Not even their own home. Sadly not everyone who works hard is well paid. Life is never fair.
We are all different, and we all have different opinions and can see things from different viewpoints. Who is right? Who is wrong? I have no idea, which is why my opinions on the matter are very mixed. I like to think I can see both sides.
Colin, the more we earn, the more we are taxed and so contribute to the economy. Then if we are lucky enough to retire with a modest pension, we are taxed again. Haven't we paid enough to be looked after, if needed, in our final years and dispose of our assets as we please?
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Quote: Originally posted by Capt Lightning on 25/4/2022
Colin, the more we earn, the more we are taxed and so contribute to the economy. Then if we are lucky enough to retire with a modest pension, we are taxed again. Haven't we paid enough to be looked after, if needed, in our final years and dispose of our assets as we please?
I'm inclined to agree, I was just putting the other side and saying it was impossible to generalise as we don't know other peoples' circumstances. I think everyone deserves to be looked after in their old age, but then I also think that state pensioners deserve to get more than the stupid pittance this country pays, which I believe is the lowest state pension in the western world.
It annoys me greatly that my pension income has just increased by £11 a month, when my gas and electricity bills have increased by £50 a month, and on top of that there are significant increases in just about all the other essentials. Before the recent price increases my pension had reduced in value by 15% since I retired. The latest price rises have decreased it's value substantially more.
Please take proper legal advice. Signing a house over is slightly more complicated than many people think.
If you continue to life in your house without paying full market rental it's known as gift with reservation so still form part of your estate - 7 years doesn't make a difference to inheritance tax in that case..
If you gift your house and your local council believe it's done to avoid care home fees then can still consider it an asset, timing can be crucial.
If you gift your house to a family member and something happens to them it forms part of their estate so you need to consider who would own it if something like that were to happen.
Ways around things but for sure talk to a solicitor to be sure you understand implications.
The councils are wise to all the dodges. You are unlikely to beat them. Life’s too short to worry about this stuff. Just get on with enjoying the time you have left. It’s what I’m doing.
We did this about 4 years ago, our house is now in a Family Trust.
Did it through our solicitor, it cost about £1000… needed Specialist Solicitor input .
“The Trust” is our daughter and our solicitor.
We can sell the house, move or whatever, no problem. It does not need anyone’s permission.
There is no 7 year rule, but at the time it is done, you must not be in imminent need of care.Youcan also put cash or other assets in the trust.
I declared some savings..no restrictions on spending your own money.
Solicitor told me that her colleagues all have their properties in Family Trusts.
If the purpose of this is for asset &/or cash rich folk at end of life to have their care funded by the council then are they missing that council funded care will be most basic bottom of range ? Having led a comfortably off life why would they want their end of life care to be only the most basic & chosen by the council & not themselves ?
We have put our house in a trust so if either or both of us go into a home our house cannot be used to pay for it. The person who sorted it out explained in very simple terms how it was done. They have offices all over the country.
It’s a very complex ethical issue on who pays for what with pensions – I grew up in a council house and my dad was a farm labourer who grew up in a tied cottage – in terms of sheer hard work he laboured harder than the vast majority who were born with greater opportunity simply by birth. In fact, it could be reasonably argued that his hard work at low cost (meaning subsequent reliance on state pension) fed the wealth of those far wealthier than him, as well as fulfilled a critical role that a “Media manager” or whatever modern jobs there are, simply doesn’t.
As my Dad came to the end of his life he had a lot of home visits, which helped keep him out of a care home, but once he was in hospital on end of life care and didn’t die as quickly as they thought he would they were talking about moving him into a care home. He died a couple of weeks after that conversation.
My sister spent the 20 years up until his death looking after her husband – saving the NHS and the County ££££. This came with an inevitable career compromise both in terms of during the care phase but also since his passing she’s had to start from scratch. Difficult to argue she shouldn’t get a good pension and help from the State should she ultimately need to go into care.
To me it follows that those with more cash should pay more for their care – as the tax and NI rates track according to income. I don’t have a simple answer to whether you should have to sell your house/raid your savings for your care – in principle it seems wrong but there has to be a break point where ££££££ in care fees are academic anyway for some people, and the State doesn’t have infinite cash.
To me i take a more simpler approach, I think everyone should get access to a free care home place, If you want a better standard then you have the option to upgrade and pay for that, But you shouldn't have your assets stripped to pay for the basic.
As already said those that have achieved more have paid more, They shouldn't be asked to pay twice, they have been hammered by the taxman throughout their working life.
At some point in the future i will also be looking at a trust to put my house in.
As Mitchamitri says, it's a very complex issue and no two people are the same. It's a sad fact of life that all too often those who work the hardest get paid the least, and often the most vital workers are among them. Care home staff are some of them.
In an ideal world everyone would be treated the same when it comes to end of life care, and nobody should have to pay, but this is far from an ideal world. In my opinion care homes should be part of the NHS so if you need to go into one it would be covered by NI contributions the same as if you have to go into hospital. This however would probably require a considerable increase in Nation Insurance contributions.
Thank you all for your input. It is a minefield so I may leave everything as it is. Your advice has been very useful and thought provoking.Fingers crossed I’ll just pop off and not linger.
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Topic: Property Trust
via mobile 26/4/2022 at 8:18am
