Quote: Originally posted by Mick S. on 09/9/2012
Why was a new turbo fitted when it was known the engine could be goosed? Surely the engine should have been inspected for damage before any expensive parts replaced?
No pun intended, but it think the garage is taking you for a ride.
The garage will have done the job on the basis that you pay to have this new turbo fitted but it may not work. No garage would take on a job involving a days work at risk of not being paid for it. Perhaps an honest garage should have refused the job. A failed turbo bearing can allow oil to be pumped out of the engine into the exhaust & debris to enter the engine. It is a huge job & full of unknowns which is why many garages would not take the job on as it impossible to price & a better idea might be just to fit a recon engine in the first place.
This is why turbos fitted by small garages often fail after a few months. A main dealer will quote a price on the manufacturer procedure basis which will involve removing sump to clean out engine, cleaning exhaust & possibly replacing dpf, owner finds a small garage to do job at fraction of price & it last about 6mnths. If you get a cheap turbo replacement & car runs ok, sell car asap.
ATTENTION: PLEASE READ THIS AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE FITTING THESE TURBOS TO YOUR CUSTOMERS VEHICLES
753420-ANY & 49173-07508 110 & 90/75 bhp
PSA 1.6HDi TURBOS, 2004- ONWARDS
The PSA 1.6HDi, DV6TED4 engine is a highly sophisticated low emission, high power diesel unit. It is used in many different applications Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo.
Due to the engine being clean and powerful, it is designed to operate with high temperatures, which demands the very best lubricants. These lubricants must be maintained in peak condition and PSA have fitted an in-line oil filter to the turbo and an integral oil cooler/oil filter to this engine to ensure this. However there is a drawback to this, reports from in the field indicate that if the engine has been operated with the oil level below normal limits, this may potentially cause a high concentration of carbon in the oil. This may then lead to blockage of the in-line filter, oil cooler and main oil filter, which will eventually bring on premature turbo failure. The vacuum pump may also suffer from this same type of contamination. However, due to its high operating speeds (230,000 revs per minute) the turbo will usually be the first to show signs of damage. This can happen from 30,000 miles onwards if the oil level and correct oil change intervals/procedure have not been adhered to.
We have found that the carbon build up in this application is particularly difficult to remove. To try to eliminate the potential for further turbo failure the following MUST be undertaken by the garage, in addition to the normal recommended turbo fitting instructions:
· TURBO OIL FEED PIPE & BANJO BOLTS MUST BE CHANGED.
· OIL PUMP SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CHECKED.
· SUMP MUST BE REMOVED AND OIL STRAINER (PICK UP) SHOULD BE CLEANED/REPLACED BEFORE RE-FITTING NEW TURBO TO REMOVE RESIDUAL CARBON/SLUDGE BUILD UP.
· OIL COOLER AND FILTER ASSEMBLY SHOULD BE REMOVED AND CLEANED.
· REMOVE CHARGE AIR COOLER, DRAIN OFF ANY OIL INSIDE AND CLEAN THOROUGHLY.
· CHECK AND CLEAN ALL INLET AND OUTLET HOSES.
· IF OIL HAS LEAKED FROM PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED TURBO OR ENGINE INTO EXHAUST, CHECK EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR CONTAMINATION/BLOCKAGE (CATALYST, DPF etc.)
· REMOVE BRAKE VACUUM PUMP TO CHECK FOR DEBRIS/CARBON AND CLEAN AS NECESSARY.
· FIT NEW OIL FILTER AND OIL.
· CHECK FUEL INJECTOR GASKETS ARE NOT BURNT OR COMPROMISED. REPLACE AS NECESSARY
· OIL FLOW MUST BE CHECKED:
o FIT TURBO TO ENGINE LEAVING OIL RETURN PIPE OFF
o INSTALL A LONGER OIL RETURN LINE AND FEED INTO SUITABLE CONTAINER
o START ENGINE AND IDLE FOR 60 SECONDS, THEN SWITCH OFF ENGINE
o MEASURE VOLUME OF OIL IN CONTAINER
§ 60 SECONDS OF IDLE SHOULD PRODUCE AT LEAST 0.3 LITRES OF OIL.
o REPEAT TEST TWO OR THREE TIMES TO CONFIRM OIL FLOW IS CORRECT
o DURING THIS TEST, DO NOT ALLOW ENGINE TO RUN BELOW MINIMUM OIL LEVEL!!
· VEHICLE SHOULD BE DRIVEN 20 to 30 MILES THEN THE OIL/FILTER REPLACED AGAIN.
Even after all the above has been carried out we cannot guarantee all carbon/oil sludge will be removed and you could still suffer a premature turbo failure. In the event of premature failure it is common for the impeller/nose nut to "come off", this is a consequence of a lubrication/turbine shaft failure & NOT a cause of turbo failure.
We feel that due to the possibility of further turbo failures on this engine it is only right to inform you before you purchase a replacement turbo for your customer. Currently we are experiencing a 15% failure rate of units we supply for this engine. Please feel free to speak to our engineers or sales team if you would like to discuss this issue further.
Any turbo returned under warranty will be subject to our standard terms and conditions.
We would also like to assure you that this is the only engine we have experienced these failure rates with. We as a company will always inform you of any ongoing issues to allow you to make the right judgement call for what you deem correct for your business.
The garage is slack set up then. To fit something like a turbo knowing it 'may not work'- and why, without prior warning, is robbery. If they did actually pre-warn the OP beforehand, careful thought should have been employed before giving the go-ahead.
The garage should have known there was a fair to good chance the engine may be knackered - and said so from the off. To just take someones money on their, possibly naive, instruction to replace the broken turbo is wrong. Then, to prise more money out of them after the fact, to investigate why the engine still doesnt work is scandalous.
i have no quibble with the garage in question, it is an independent diesel specialist, with a very good reputation, looking after 80% of taxis in our area. the engine was flushed, with no sign of debris in the engine, and they do engine rebuilds, but the shell is beyond repair with the amount of damage.
my picasso has the same engine, turbo blew with no prior warning, (something must have contaminated the oil IMO)
The engines get a lot of stick but when you dig into the amount of cars that have them its not surprising that there are soo many going wrong as there are simply enough of them.
mine blew about 30 miles from home and i limped home with it, had a fiddle under the bonnet, spotted leaky injector and that th airbox had blown off went out for another 5mile test then took to garage and luckily not done any damage to the engine 5k miles later all seems ok.
I had the full oil pipes and turbo replaced for around 800£ by small local garage so no real need for a dealer.
however they do recommend full engine replacement being the only real cure as it is caused by build up within the system eventually destroying the turbo.
Now we have the facts IMO go for it and have the engine replaced they are good engines when running properly, and if you look after it well it should last for some time.
the engines are common as muck should have no trouble finding one they are the same as the Mini, some volvo's in the fords too just to name some.
a picasso is not the same engine as a sorento, apart from kia Hyundai is the only people that use it, trouble is it wont be a new engine as the short engine new is£2200, with the rest, will be more than£4500 the worth of the car!, so whos to know how a used engine will fair, and as for recons, they cant be that good, most only give a 3 month guarantee, i think it will have to be used and sell on and just face the fact ive lost a packet! thanks for all your thoughts
Things used to be so much simpler. I remember I had an old Audi 80 years ago and the engine blew on it (through lack of oil which I had omitted to fill up). £125 from the local breaker's yard for a replacement engine. Fitted it all myself and ran like a dream. Problem these days is you have annoying things like turbos and unfathomable electrics.
Would this be the same 2.5 litre engine fitted to the current Hyundai i800? The one I have which is currently at the Hyundai garage having a new engine fitted after having thrown all it's oil on the road?
Many yrs ago, what stopped a car was rust. Cars often needed welding after a few yrs & the average life of a car was 11yrs, apart from rusting to bits, the paint faded & the interior fell apart, but repairs were simple & diy. You could change a clutch in a 70s Cortina in 2hrs & a recon engine was cheap enough & simple to fit.
Nowadays an 11yr old car will be rust free & the paintwork still in good condition but any major mechnical failure is so costly to repair it ain't worth fixing. So cars still last only on average about 11yrs.
every time i get a new car it becomes harder too do the simple things like change the brake pads, and ive only been driving ten years!
first car was a nissan almera and it was dead easy the calipers just flipped open. then i had a megane and the bumper had too come off just too change a headlight bulb!.
not had too attempt anything yet on the picasso other than an oil change (and apart from the turbo i was never going to attempt) but the Brake pads are getting close i think :(
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Topic: blown engine
