Autopilot do you know why? What is the difference between a stolen motorbike or car and a caravan? Just curious and wondered if you knew the technicalities.
So on the above link, if you have inadvertently bought a stolen car and carry on driving it once told that fact, you can be had for handling stolen goods! What makes this caravan any different then? I am baffled.
I do have experience in the legal/police side of things, but I don't know much about this case other than what the press say - which is invariably written to provoke a reaction and discussion. There is usually more to it.
But in the eyes of the law, yes there is a difference between a bike and a caravan - a caravan is a dwelling. Plus taking it away would be to effectively remove someone from there home. Particularly problematic if children are involved. I have a lot of sympathy for the original owners, but its not the police's fault.
Also, if it was insured then it actually technically belongs to the insurance company now.
Yes indeed it would belong to the insurers, I get the impression though it wasn't insured otherwise why the fuss? The articles I have read on line seemed to imply the same would happen with a caravan if you bought a stolen one unawares, ie it would have to be returned to the owner or insurer.
Whatever the situation, it does seem harsh on the original owners, what about their human rights to inhabit their caravan? Like you say though, they know the full story we only know what the press have regurgitated.
Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 31/7/2013
Yes indeed it would belong to the insurers, I get the impression though it wasn't insured otherwise why the fuss?
Because its a good news story, with lots us discussing it over the Internet, linking back to the papers website? It's usually the papers generating the fuss, with the people involved along for the ride.
I have known caravans be returned to their owners, so obviously there is more to this. Whatever the facts, they can't just be turfed out. There is a process of eviction that must be followed. It's there to protect families, even if occasionally it seems wrong to some people. There will always be fringe cases like this and the press love it.
From the article in the Mail-
"The couple, who live in a semi-detached home in Tongham, Surrey, were in between insurance policies at the time of the theft in 2011 so were not covered for a payout."
so it would seem that the couple still own it. I bet they won't let any insurances lapse in future
According to the report in the Mail, the owners were "between Insurance". It's not the fault of the Police that there will be no prosecution, they don't decide in most cases, all they do is gather the evidence. It's done for them. CPS are as spineless as the UKBS. (CPS = Criminal Protection Service)
Civil actions are based on Probability not Proof of evidence.
------------- Some days you are the dog,
some days you are the tree.
The owners were between insurers and so it was not covered - hence the reason for no payout. I cannot understand why you would let your insurance lapse on your van and wait to go with someone else - you wouldn't do it with your car. Yes if you are going to change insurers surely you would have one policy end at midnight and the other one start at 1 second past midnight.
I think it is madness that the police are powerless to seize the caravan - afterall they are travellers - they chose that way of life - but it does not give them the right to take someone elses property.
Human rights - paaaaa!!!! What about the rights of the legal owner?
------------- Degsy Rowlands is my love, my life and a lunatic!!!!!!!! Louise x
The true owners paid £30,000 for the van. The current "residents" said they paid £300 (yes, three hundred) for it off a bloke in a pub.
Plod has some difficulty identifying who actually stole the caravan, so the police cannot act against the thieves.
When you buy a car, it is bought caveat emptor. If you buy a stolen car, it is still the rightful property of the owner, and the owner, or insurance company (if they have settled) can snatch it back with no recompense to you - you should have been more diligent even of you did not steal it. This would probably be the same with a caravan, but here there is a difference.
The problem with this case is that the law that is preventing the police snatching back the caravan is under the Human Rights agenda. The "residents" after paying £300 for a £30k van were obviously not aware that something was wrong, so they bought it in good faith. If this was a car it would be snatched back at this point. However, as it is the current "residents" residence, I guess (pure guess) this is where the human rights mob get involved with their ridiculous laws, and the current owners need to take civil action to evict the current "residents" and reclaim their property.
I dread to think what condition it will be in after the current "residents" leave as they are likely to destroy it on exit (some of a similar demographic did this to a house they rented close to my parents).
EDIT: Another little business they operate is that they steal a caravan and then sell it cheaply (for cash) to some unsuspecting person outside of their demographic who puts it on his or her drive. The police roll up and quite rightly the van is repossessed and given back to its original owner.
So what is the difference here? The new owner was not living in it, so has no human rights, and the "businessman" is off somewhere else of no fixed abode with the cash.
I would provide a clearer definition of "resident" and "businessman" but I believe that this forum does not allow such practice...
Post last edited on 01/08/2013 13:19:45
------------- The drinking will continue till the economy improves
107.7 The Bone rocks my tent (earphones after 10pm)
Quote: Originally posted by Velvet Kitten on 01/8/2013
The owners were between insurers and so it was not covered - hence the reason for no payout. I cannot understand why you would let your insurance lapse on your van and wait to go with someone else - you wouldn't do it with your car. Yes if you are going to change insurers surely you would have one policy end at midnight and the other one start at 1 second past midnight.
I think it is madness that the police are powerless to seize the caravan - afterall they are travellers - they chose that way of life - but it does not give them the right to take someone elses property.
Human rights - paaaaa!!!! What about the rights of the legal owner?
My guess is that the insurance company would not pay out even if it was insured IF it was discovered in this situation before they paid out. The owners would still be responsible for bringing the civil action to reclaim their property and the insurers would wash their hands of it.
However, if it was insured and the insurance company had paid out, then the insurance company would bring the action.
------------- The drinking will continue till the economy improves
107.7 The Bone rocks my tent (earphones after 10pm)
Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 30/7/2013
Surely the owners had it insured and have received a payout by now. You would have to be bonkers not to insure an expensive van.
I do not understand how a stolen vehicle can be left in situ, it wouldn't happen with a car or a motorbike.
Ali
According to the report in the Daily Mail the van was not insured, it was between insurances
The reports now say because there's children living in the van if it was recovered they would be made homeless which is against their human rights and thats why the police cant\wont act, also if the original owners retrieve it they could be prosecuted fo theft.
------------- Doing as little as possible for as much as possible...
Imagine, if you will, that you live in a flat with your children. You have been there for a while and always paid you bills. Then one day, you can't pay your rent in time - say due to having in unexpected amount of bills, or whatever. You can pay it, but it might take a week longer. The next day the landlord comes around and begins throwing all your belongings out the window and pushes you and your children onto the street with nowhere else to go. Would that be fair?
Now before anyone says 'but that's completely different!'... Well yes it is different. But the point is that the law is there to protect people in situations like that. And most of the time it works. But there will always be fringe cases where the law does not apear to be adequate or appropriate, colateral damage if you will. But you can't legislate for every single individual situation. That would be imposible but it does not mean should not have these laws.
These laws protect innocent families day in day out, and rightly so. But once in a blue moon you get a case in the press where something does not seem completely fair and suddenly everyone is shouting 'the law is crazy! We should get rid of these laws' with out actually stopping to think about all the times the law works well but does not get reported.
It's a terrible situation for the poor souls who orginally bought it. but I honestly can't think why there is so much confusion. It's pretty obvious why the police can't seize it. And the police are not saying the family in it now can keep it, they are simply saying that before they seize it the original owners need to go through a legal process to get it back.
1) The police do not need to prove who stole something before its returned to the rightful owner. I don't know the exact details of this case, but that seems to be a red herring that's confusing some people.
2) This is not aimed at anyone on this forum, more at the comments I have read elsewhere, but I wonder if there would have been quite so much fuss if the family now living in it were a nice middle-class family. Just wondering, pure speculation...
3) It never ceases to amaze me just how easily the press can spin a story, and how easily people are sucked in. The comments I have seen on some papers websites are depressing.
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Topic: stolen caravan
