Gencon is probably a good idea for a dog that's never been taught to walk properly with humans and, as a result, pulls constantly.
However, the problem of lunging and barking at other dogs is, as Lidds pointed out in the third reply, about getting the dog's attention and encouraging the dog to take the initiative from its owner. Fancy collars and leads will NOT help you do this. If Lidds' post wasn't clear, I suggest you find some local dog training classes.
I have had a dog who is approximately 3 years old for 6 months. When we're walking, he pulls like a train, barks at everything and nothing constantly down the road, round the park. He lunges at people walking by, push bikes, prams, other dogs. He's a nightmare. For the pulling I've tried the Gencon and a Halti. The Halti was the better of the two but didn't really help. The Gencon he had off his face within about 10 yards of the house. I've got to the point where I can't cope with him any more and my other dog is now telling him off when he goes into a barking frenzy. I've tried a trainer and a behaviourist but, sadly, I've decided I have to re-home him. I think 6 months without seeing any kind of progress is as much as I can take.
Clicker training is a complete waste of time with the sort of behaviour the OP is describing.
Finding a good trainer or behaviourist would probably be the best bet if you can afford it. It's difficult to re-train behaviour if you don't know what you're doing.
I hope you can get your dog sorted out, it's heartbreaking to have to let them go.
Quote: Originally posted by Whatamess on 26/2/2014I have had a dog who is approximately 3 years old for 6 months. When we're walking, he pulls like a train, barks at everything and nothing constantly down the road, round the park. He lunges at people walking by, push bikes, prams, other dogs. He's a nightmare. For the pulling I've tried the Gencon and a Halti. The Halti was the better of the two but didn't really help. The Gencon he had off his face within about 10 yards of the house. I've got to the point where I can't cope with him any more and my other dog is now telling him off when he goes into a barking frenzy. I've tried a trainer and a behaviourist but, sadly, I've decided I have to re-home him. I think 6 months without seeing any kind of progress is as much as I can take.
Clicker training is a complete waste of time with the sort of behaviour the OP is describing.
Finding a good trainer or behaviourist would probably be the best bet if you can afford it. It's difficult to re-train behaviour if you don't know what you're doing.
I hope you can get your dog sorted out, it's heartbreaking to have to let them go.
Nora
What a shame you haven't received the help you so obviously need.
You need to make sure you get a properly qualified behaviourist.
Try looking at this thread on Pet Forums
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-training-behaviour/97249-what-look-trainer-behaviourist.html
Devices such as the Halti, Mekuti harness, Gencon all work but only in conjunction with training. Clicker training does work my dog is proof of that.
Its a long process, yes we still have moments where she pulls or barks on the lead. Its not so bad that it puts me in bed for several days as it did in the beginning. My dog wasn't easily trainable when I got her. I had her at 10 months after she had received very little training and socialisation.
A change in diet, training, socialisation and a Halti harness made a massive difference. Diet was the biggest difference. If she pulls I take not one step forward until she is back by my side, once she returns I click and treat.
I have gone from a dog that I couldn't walk, screamed if another dog approached off lead, snapped barked aggressively at other dogs when on lead and some people. Now she performs tricks, is a pleasure to walk most of the time and is becoming a dog I'm proud of, she isn't perfect still jumps up and gets over excited at times.
I would say to everyone look at what you are feeding your dog. A lot of dog foods are full of chemicals and colourants, they are high in carbohydrates. Dogs end up like a child on an e number sugar rush, this makes a massive difference to their behaviour.
Madz - I couldn't agree more with you about the food. Some are full of garbage really. We have to watch with our greyhound not to feed more than 20% protein or he'd be bouncing off the walls! But I had a job finding a better food for him with a lower protein (have done thankfully). Our dog food is free from wheat and other grain, maize and other guff.
As you say, there will always be times when our dogs disagree with another one. Sometimes my grey gets annoyed with dogs that jump up at him - so he gives them a bark (greys don't really bark at al). We've been fortunate with our rescue that he's not needing training classes, but I think they are invaluable if a nervous dog is becoming aggressive - it will build their confidence and make them calmer.
We have a jack russell with behaviour problems and have consulted a behaviourist about it.
He gets very uptight when a dog is behind us coming our way. Doesn't matter how far back, if Jack knows its there he doesn't feel happy. My solution is to go a different way. Even going down a cul de sac until he realises the dog is no longer behind us. Then we continue our walk. Trying to solve a dog's behavior issues can take months and loads of patience.
Quote: Originally posted by Whatamess on 26/2/2014I have had a dog who is approximately 3 years old for 6 months. When we're walking, he pulls like a train, barks at everything and nothing constantly down the road, round the park. He lunges at people walking by, push bikes, prams, other dogs. He's a nightmare. For the pulling I've tried the Gencon and a Halti. The Halti was the better of the two but didn't really help. The Gencon he had off his face within about 10 yards of the house. I've got to the point where I can't cope with him any more and my other dog is now telling him off when he goes into a barking frenzy. I've tried a trainer and a behaviourist but, sadly, I've decided I have to re-home him. I think 6 months without seeing any kind of progress is as much as I can take.
Clicker training is a complete waste of time with the sort of behaviour the OP is describing.
Finding a good trainer or behaviourist would probably be the best bet if you can afford it. It's difficult to re-train behaviour if you don't know what you're doing.
I hope you can get your dog sorted out, it's heartbreaking to have to let them go.
Nora
Did you use the Gencon which clips the normal collar, at one end? Did you adjust it with the slider, against his head, and hold it on the short loop (so you are guiding his head)?
It takes a lot of time, patience and dedication to get a dog past this. We took on a friend's dog, who was so unruly they couldn't handle her. I'm sorry to say it, but they just hadn't given her consistent training and positive handling, so she had no manners at all. It took us months and months to get her to respond and to walk nicely, but when her behaviour changed - and it did, eventually - she was such a nicer dog to live with.
I didn't just go straight out with the Gencon, I used to walk her around the garden, around the kitchen or anywhere she was happy and felt safe, lots of times a day but just for a few minutes at a time, to get her used to it. She tried to take it off at first, with her front paws, but that's because she was used to doing things her way. Now, she had to learn she was going to do what I wanted, so I kept her head up. I talked to her and encouraged her all the time and gave her loads of praise and treats when she walked nicely, even for a minute or two. I then started to do take her out on the roads, just a bit at a time so I could control it and never get stressed with her.
With a dog who hasn't learned manners, you've really got to start from scratch I think and re-do all basic training, to get that bond established between you again. Being skatty isn't being a bad dog, it's about being a dog who hasn't learned the right (or more socially acceptable way) of doing things.
I do know it's not easy, and you can feel at the end of your tether with things.
Training classes and doggy day care, for socialisation, are other things to think about, possibly.
I'd recommend joining a good obedience class. Dog learns to socialise there, you learn how to help Wilbur. (BTW I think he's trying to protect his new family. Shouting at him just reinforces this - he thinks you're barking too.) We were taught this routine - as soon as leash goes tight (common springer spaniel problem!) or the dog barks, make your "noise" (a curt No, or the noise used for toddlers about to do something wrong), turn around and walk in the opposite direction until the lead is loose, praise dog profusely (kindly voice and a pat, not food or they'll get fat), then turn back and try again. And again. Dogs aren't stupid, Wilbur will soon cotton on. Generally, it works to ignore bad behaviour, praise good (dogs = toddlers). Borrow a friend with a placid dog. Taking the dog to one side, with its back to the other dog as it passes, and rewarding its good behaviour (as suggested above) works too. But again, a willing assistant is helpful for practice. Persevere - it'll be so worth it!
Many thanks for the advice given, it really is appreciated.
Following Lidds and Heath63s suggestions I thought I'd have a go at the distraction and treat idea. I bought a clicker to distract him and lots of treats. We went to the park earlier and we were approached by a large Boxer. Wilbur is usually ok and normally just wants to play but it's not easy to predict. He was pulling on the lead so I clicked twice in his ear, took him aside facing away from the Boxer, made a fuss and gave him a treat. He was certainly distracted and was more interested in the fuss and the treat than the dog.This happened again with a Collie, and although he looked back at the dog it was definitely better. I hope I've understood the advice there.
The third time it happened we had two dogs approaching from different sides..eek! One of the dogs was lunging at Wilbur so I took him aside again but managed to drop the treats everywhere. Both Wilbur and the other dog had a great time scoffing the lot off the floor ,tails wagging and seemingly best of friends. So there's the definitive answer. Throw a load of treats for all the dogs and everyone's happy!
Seriously, I'm encouraged by the start but am a bit concerned that he will associate aggression with the treat rather than changing his behavior, but he did relax when I turned him away though so its seems ok for now. I'll give this a go for a while then look at other suggested ideas if needed. He's a lovely fella and it only happens occasionally, but it's got to be worth trying to deal with.
One other thing. Is it usual for dogs to be better behaved off the lead?He does seem to relax more off the leash.
Anyway Wilbur sends his sincere thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments. Here's a pic
Post last edited on 26/02/2014 20:25:25
Post last edited on 26/02/2014 20:28:17
------------- John
May/June.....France
Aug.......somewhere else in France
Awwwwe , he's gorgeous, sounds like a good start. Ignore bad behaviour, only reward the good. If Wilber tenses, just distract him then reward if he doesn't react.
Be patient and consistent, you may feel as if you are going backwards at times, this is normal.
And yes dogs can behave better off the lead.
One hint, when dogs sniff bums first, that is good,
when a dog is wagging tail and presenting bum, good sign.
When a dog stands and stares, this can be confrontational.
When a dog rolls on it's back with legs up in the air, the dog is communicating that, it means no harm, usually to a dog who is more dominant in heirachy.
------------- New Year: Hesketh Bank
Feb/March: Red Squirrel
March: lakes
June: Morecambe
Aug: Lake District(not camping camping)
October: Red Squirrel
Quote: Originally posted by bigtoe on 26/2/2014Many thanks for the advice given, it really is appreciated.
Following Lidds and Heath63s suggestions I thought I'd have a go at the distraction and treat idea. I bought a clicker to distract him and lots of treats. We went to the park earlier and we were approached by a large Boxer. Wilbur is usually ok and normally just wants to play but it's not easy to predict. He was pulling on the lead so I clicked twice in his ear, took him aside facing away from the Boxer, made a fuss and gave him a treat. He was certainly distracted and was more interested in the fuss and the treat than the dog.This happened again with a Collie, and although he looked back at the dog it was definitely better. I hope I've understood the advice there.
The third time it happened we had two dogs approaching from different sides..eek! One of the dogs was lunging at Wilbur so I took him aside again but managed to drop the treats everywhere. Both Wilbur and the other dog had a great time scoffing the lot off the floor ,tails wagging and seemingly best of friends. So there's the definitive answer. Throw a load of treats for all the dogs and everyone's happy!
Seriously, I'm encouraged by the start but am a bit concerned that he will associate aggression with the treat rather than changing his behavior, but he did relax when I turned him away though so its seems ok for now. I'll give this a go for a while then look at other suggested ideas if needed. He's a lovely fella and it only happens occasionally, but it's got to be worth trying to deal with.
One other thing. Is it usual for dogs to be better behaved off the lead?He does seem to relax more off the leash.
Anyway Wilbur sends his sincere thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments. Here's a pic
Post last edited on 26/02/2014 20:25:25
Post last edited on 26/02/2014 20:28:17
A clicker isn't useful to distract a dog. A squeaky toy might please follow my link on how to use a clicker.
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Topic: Dog barking and lunging on the lead.
