The question of course are EVs truly environmental friendly? The electric comes from fossil fuel so we need to use more fossil fuel to generate the electric. Then there is the question regarding the manufacture of batteries?
Another question regarding second hand EVs is that only main dealers can access all the data as mentioned by tdrees and of course you will be paying main dealer or stealer prices.
An EV for urban use is great and would not mind having PHEV rather than a true EV, but on motorways I think you are limited with an EV as they are very time consuming and real hassle if you are towing a trailer.
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 28/7/2022
The question of course are EVs truly environmental friendly? The electric comes from fossil fuel so we need to use more fossil fuel to generate the electric. Then there is the question regarding the manufacture of batteries?
Another question regarding second hand EVs is that only main dealers can access all the data as mentioned by tdrees and of course you will be paying main dealer or stealer prices.
An EV for urban use is great and would not mind having PHEV rather than a true EV, but on motorways I think you are limited with an EV as they are very time consuming and real hassle if you are towing a trailer.
It’s a valid question to ask, and it’s very true that no new vehicle is environmentally friendly. Not building a new thing alway is less damaging than building a new thing. If the question being asked is “are Brand new EVs less damaging to the environment than equivalent band new ICE vehicles over their usable lifetime” then the answer is an unequivocal “yes”. There are numerous liftetime impact analysis studies that have answered this question.
Electricity comes not just from fossil fuel in the UK (in our case) mix. Right now, (Thursday 27th at 9:44am) our National grid carbon is 258g co2/kWh. 55% gas, 3%coal, 2% interconnection. That makes my car (3.4miles per kWh solo real world) about 75g CO2/mile or 46gCO2/km.
Manufacture of batteries is energy intensive and generates a CO2 debt for each new car manufactured. But because of the much lower CO2 emissions from the tailpipe, the debt is repaid at between 30k and 50k Km, depending on the grid carbon intensity.
At the end of their life in a car, batteries can be re-used in static storage powering homes (PowerVault are doing this) and ultimately recycled (Veolia are doing this). Contrary to common myth, they are not put into landfill as they are too valuable.
For the use on motorway or towing, that is of course down to personal choice. For me the drawbacks are minor and absolutely worth it for the rest of the EV experience.
I think the question I have, I have a plug in Hybrid. In a year or so time, will it be more expensive to charge an EV car for say 200 miles, than fuel an ICE car for the same length of journey.
I love driving my car in EV mode, the whole driving experience is nicer, but is it, or will it be, costing me more than say a petrol equivalent.
Quote: Originally posted by Devonatheart on 05/8/2022
I think the question I have, I have a plug in Hybrid. In a year or so time, will it be more expensive to charge an EV car for say 200 miles, than fuel an ICE car for the same length of journey.
I love driving my car in EV mode, the whole driving experience is nicer, but is it, or will it be, costing me more than say a petrol equivalent.
Depends how and where you charge. I charge at home overnight. 7.5p per kWh. That’s £6 for a full charge, giving me between 190 and 240 miles depending on the time of year and how I drive.
At £1.70 per litre, or £7.65 per gallon, you would need a petrol car to do over 200mpg real world to get to the same cost…
Quote: Originally posted by Devonatheart on 05/8/2022
I think the question I have, I have a plug in Hybrid. In a year or so time, will it be more expensive to charge an EV car for say 200 miles, than fuel an ICE car for the same length of journey.
I love driving my car in EV mode, the whole driving experience is nicer, but is it, or will it be, costing me more than say a petrol equivalent.
Depends how and where you charge. I charge at home overnight. 7.5p per kWh. That’s £6 for a full charge, giving me between 190 and 240 miles depending on the time of year and how I drive.
At £1.70 per litre, or £7.65 per gallon, you would need a petrol car to do over 200mpg real world to get to the same cost…
Interesting, so how much do you think it costs me to charge my Hyundai Tucson Ultimate PHEV please. I not great on working this stuff out tbh.
You need to,find how many units it uses then get the price per unit from your electric bill.
The unit is Kilowatt hour.A Kilowatt is 1000 Watts. Watts are voltage x current. So 230v x 10A is 2.3 KW. For 6 hours (if it takes a constant 10A).
So 13.8KW hours.
------------- DS-There's more to life than football!!!
Quote: Originally posted by 664DaveS on 09/8/2022
You need to,find how many units it uses then get the price per unit from your electric bill.
The unit is Kilowatt hour.A Kilowatt is 1000 Watts. Watts are voltage x current. So 230v x 10A is 2.3 KW. For 6 hours (if it takes a constant 10A).
So 13.8KW hours.
Thanks Dave, much appreciated. So, if I round it up, its around £1.15 for me to get around 34 miles. They state 38 miles on EV alone, but it In reality, living in hilly Devon, it is nearer 34.
BMW 330e has a 11.5kw battery so £2.99 to charge based on 26p per kilowatt for 40 miles, i charge mine at work so only need to put in around £1-£1.50 per day for my return journey
I don't think there is much doubt about the fact that at the moment for anyone who can afford an EV or Hybrid, the running costs are considerably cheaper than for an ICE car. How long that will last is another question, and I doubt anyone knows the answer.
The government makes a huge amount from fuel taxes, and from road tax on ICE cars, but they want to encourage people to switch to electric, which will hit their income enormously when enough people have switched. They will want to recoup those losses, so guess who will be paying? In my opinion it is only a question of when.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2022
I don't think there is much doubt about the fact that at the moment for anyone who can afford an EV or Hybrid, the running costs are considerably cheaper than for an ICE car. How long that will last is another question, and I doubt anyone knows the answer.
The government makes a huge amount from fuel taxes, and from road tax on ICE cars, but they want to encourage people to switch to electric, which will hit their income enormously when enough people have switched. They will want to recoup those losses, so guess who will be paying? In my opinion it is only a question of when.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 10/8/2022
I don't think there is much doubt about the fact that at the moment for anyone who can afford an EV or Hybrid, the running costs are considerably cheaper than for an ICE car. How long that will last is another question, and I doubt anyone knows the answer.
The government makes a huge amount from fuel taxes, and from road tax on ICE cars, but they want to encourage people to switch to electric, which will hit their income enormously when enough people have switched. They will want to recoup those losses, so guess who will be paying? In my opinion it is only a question of when.
In addition as EVs require less servicing, less parts, no fossil fuel many people may become unemployed resulting in even less income for the government. As said they need to recoup that loss elsewhere and as a result whether you own a vehicle or not, your tax may increase due to the huge shortfall.
I suspect some form of VED or road pricing will come. They may charge the electricity for vehicles at a different rate?
I would like to see electric vehicles pay VED now.
You have to pay it on hybrids now ( at a higher rate if list price is over £40 k) despite having paid a big chunk of VAT already.
No doubt the treasury bean counters will come up with a cunning plan.
------------- DS-There's more to life than football!!!
My suspicion will be road pricing in some form. The government need to find a way to close the revenue gap, without promoting ICE over EV. Maintaining the VED gap, and adding road pricing for all would have that effect, and will be paid for more by those that use the roads more.
The problem with charging for electricity for vehicles at a different rate is it is unenforceable (in the home) and will penalise those who have no off road parking. It's easy to imagine a new VAT rate or duty on public charging. Indeed, this happens today. Public charging has VAT of 20%, while electricity for home charging is at 5%. But this causes disparity in costs. Those who cant home charge are already at a disadvantage as domestic electricity falls under the price cap, but public charging does not. That results in a rate of 28p at home and somewhere above 50p in pubic.
If you have a drive and a smart meter, and can load shift, you can also have an electricty rate for as low as 7.5p over night. And if you can also afford solar, you potentially have the option to charge for free.
The net is driving a two tier cost system for EVs. One for those who home charge, and another for those who don't. Thats a huge problem for the mass adoption of EVs, that is not technology related, but all about the regulatory infrastructure. Another problem to deal with.
One way out of that is to reduce the VAT on public charging and introduce day time variable charging costs. This being looked at by some charging companies already. The idea is to encourage the use of slower charging over night (when electricity is cheaper and greener) and discourage peak day usage (morning and evening).
I have always been in favour of road pricing, even when I did a much higher mileage than I do now. I have always felt that road tax was grossly unfair as it is a tax on ownership of a vehicle rather than use of one. Why should the little old lady who uses her car to drive a mile to church on a Sunday and a couple of miles once a week to go shopping, pay as much as someone with a similar car who does 40,000 miles a year?
The governments of this country, whatever persuasion, always seem to favour clobbering the motorist though, whoever they may be.
Amazing family weekend with old steam engines, classic car displays, market stalls, and full catering and bar. And camping on site - Save £25 by booking in advance.
Topic: Long tow with an EV
via mobile 28/7/2022 at 10:46am
