Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 28/10/2009
The situation is that the CC Technical dept said that theycould see no illegality in taking out the seats, whilst the manufacturer says that the seats should not be removed. The question is only in regards to seat removal whilst towing.
But there are differences of opinion, and some are only opinions and uninformed ones at that; it would be foolhardy to think that there is at the moment any proven fact that it would be legal to remove the seats. So there has been no agreement one way or the other.
There is no mileage in arguing for arguing's sake; it will not resolve an unanswered question. But until I can get an unequivocal cinfirmation from a reliable source, backed up by written evidence (e.g., EU Regulations), I am applying commonsense and taking the vehicle manufacturer's guidance as the safest advice. To treat this advice as not reliable would be playing the fool. You wouldn't take medical advice from a bus driver (no offence to bus drivers) in preference to a doctor, would you!
There are people who remove the seats (I did it), and we all need to know exactly how we stand in law. It isn't a game, and there are important issues to be established. Personally, I am taking my enquiries in another direction. I hope to get a satisfactory reply but, whatever the outcome, I will report back.
Regards, Bertie.
Reporting back, as promised. Today I got an email from the DfT. After preliminary quotes regarding towing weights as we see them in the Club mags, etc, the final sentence was the most important:
Therefore, in your situation, it is our understanding that it is permissible to remove seats from the vehicle to increase the load carrying space. You must not exceed the weights on the chassis plate of the vehicle or the capacity of the tow bar and coupling.
This means that the C.C. Tech dept. were correct (apologies to C.C.). A letter next time to VW (harder to wriggle) just to get them to confirm situation (just in case stubborn P.C. Plod arrives on scene).
Back to the original post, I would find a weightbridge and take the whole outfit there loaded before a trip including all normal passengers.Check the axle weight of each axle then refer to chassis and loading plates to check it is not overweight.
When you are sure of the exact towing percentage then you can look for other things causing the instability I would guess that you maybe heavier than you think.
I would check as already mentioned the cars rear tyre pressures and put these to the maximum recommended for a fully loaded vehicle by the ford handbook.
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Ref. my VW Touran, today I received a letter back from Volkswagen, which states that it is permissible for me to tow my caravan with the second row of seats removed.
I now have certified proof that this is permissible which means, in the event of an RTC, or being stopped by the police , there is no risk of falling foul of the "insurance not valid" trap, or the threat of court proceedings by a traffic cop who might consider it somehow breaks the rules.
There must be other similar vehicles which have the facility to remove seats, and I would recommend that owners get similar verification from the vehicle manufacturer's customer services dept., if they intend to use this method, just for their own peace of mind. It could prevent a long drawn out period of aggravation, or even worse if the validity of the car insurance was challenged.
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Topic: Wagging
