I currently have a vauxhall vectra estate that i am planning on towing a caravan with and have literally only towed it from the previous owners home, to our storage depo some 20 miles away.
My current car has low profile tyres and wouldnt be my first choice of tyre anyway (its just that it was the only car i wanted (estate) with low profiles on at the time with all the extras.
I am not really a fan of low profile tyres as they seem to feel every bump in the road and need more control when steering over bad roads than normal tyres and after going into my dealership for my towbar to be fitted i was told that if i wasnt happy with the tyres i currently had then the dealership would change them at a cost of £140 labour from another car they have and i would get a better towing experience with normal tyres ?
Could anyone offer there opinion on what we would should do ? would we be better keeping the low profiles or swap them for normal tyres and would we feel any difference while towing or benefits from either tyre.
hi there i am a tyre fitter and a strong believer in not having low profile tyres on any car they make look nice but as you have already pointed out they change the drive of the car. tyres are also cheaper in the none low profiles so i would recommend to get them changed just make sure the size tyre on the ones dealer offer you are the correct size... u can do this quickly and easily by going on kwikfits web site and putting in your reg number and it tells you what size should be fitted to your car.. as for benifits towing wouldnt know as i have a 4by so doesnt affect my tractoe tyres hope this was of help
I would try to find someone with standard wheels and tyres of the same fitting and do a swap. I have no doubt the dealer are going to be charging the owner of the car with standard tyres a pretty penny for your wheels. If you put an as in your local ad trader or even ebay, for a straight swap, you would have someone rip your hand off. You might even get lucky and find someone who will pay you a few quid for the deal too.
I agree, I don't like low profiles. I'm not a fan of alloys either. I changed the alloys with low profiles on my last car for a set of standard dteel wheels and normal profile tyres.
In dry conditions, the low profiles hold the road better, but that is where the benefit ends. They give a harder ride, tend to wear quicker and are proned to aquaplaning in the wet.
The do have a harder ride but I havent noticed any of the other drawbacks listed other than the larger flatter footprint seems to do worse in the snow where it acts a bit like a snow shoe and cant displace packed snow.
Any improved grip is better and I thought that lower profiles did better becuase they stay flatter on the road more of the time because theres less flexing and give from the side walls? A given size diameter be it 5.5, 6 ,6 or whatever will surely put down the same flat footprint under many normal straight line driving conditions when theres no significant side wall flexing?
Sure they'll aquaplane in the wet.....if theyre worn and cant displace the amount of water present, change them well before 1.6 and you'll probably never notice the difference.
All persoanl choice Daz, what profile are the ones youve got on? with 55- , I'd be getting worried about "kerbing" them off road on sites and what have you.
Many cars, including mine, are fitted as standard with 55's. So the whole package has been designed with this in mind.
I guess if you fit any lower profile, as mentioned earlier will make ride harsher, but (assuming you are still within load factor) the only effect it will have is reduced ground clearance. This might become material when loaded up during towing.
Agreed John , hence my comment regarding 55- (as in minus) I was having a think about this and I cant think of a current new or nearly new "normal car" that doesnt have a profile noted on the tyre as opposed to the old 100%
Wider tyres (which low profiles usually are in order to preserve the radius) wear quicker as when cornering, the outside of the tyre tries to turn faster than the inside. This is the case with any tyre, but the wider the tyre, the bigger the forces on it due to the increased arc. Also lower profiles have less give in the side walls to absorb these forces so inevitably wear quicker.
The reason a wider tyre aquaplanes is that they still have the same escape zones for the water around the sides of the tyre, but being wider they are displacing a lot more water which means it is harder for the displaced water to escape through the grooves in the tyre increasing the liklihood of aquaplaning. To compound the problem, many people think the low profile tyres give them more grip so don't alter their driving style for the conditions sufficiently, when they actually have far less grip than they would have had with a narrow tyre.
Quote: Originally posted by LegsDownKettleOn on 24/8/2008The reason a wider tyre aquaplanes is that they still have the same escape zones for the water around the sides of the tyre, but being wider they are displacing a lot more water which means it is harder for the displaced water to escape through the grooves in the tyre increasing the liklihood of aquaplaning.
I'm sure thats incorrect, a given width of tyre/wheel combo places the same footprint onto the road whatever its profile.
Where the profile changes things is that with a 45 for example theres less sidewall flexing than on a 75. Less give in the tyre makes for tighter handling and more stability but less softening of the ride for passenger comfort. A 6'' wide rim when its not under duress will always place 6'' (or thereabouts) worth of tread down onto the road whatever its profile.
As far as perception of grip goes I think your getting confused with the fact that wider tyres in general use these days do give much better grip than ever before in the dry but the down side of the increased width is the snowshoe effect. Where a pram wheel width tyre would cut throught the snow or water , a conventional tread on a wider tyre may not and just sit on it. Thats one reason we're seeing more directional treads and those that look like several different treads on one tyre as opposed to the old fashioned block style of years ago and the tread min was changed years ago from 1 to 1.6 mm (and should be reviewed again).
Personally I'm not a fan of low profile tyres, whether towing or not.
I know of one instance where an accident occurred because of the tyres - an ex-pupil of mine swerved to avoid a dog on a fast moving road and went over the edge of the tarmac on to the stones. With conventional tyres he would have been able to steer back on to the carriageway but because of the low profile tyres he had fitted to the car he wasn't able to get back up out of the stones and onto the carriageway.
I'm sure they're fine on nice smooth tarmac, but with the state of some of our motorways where the inside lane particularly has deep ruts, I feel they could create a hazard.
------------- Caz
If you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, just keep going till you go round the bend.
Quote: Originally posted by LegsDownKettleOn on 24/8/2008The reason a wider tyre aquaplanes is that they still have the same escape zones for the water around the sides of the tyre, but being wider they are displacing a lot more water which means it is harder for the displaced water to escape through the grooves in the tyre increasing the liklihood of aquaplaning.
I'm sure thats incorrect, a given width of tyre/wheel combo places the same footprint onto the road whatever its profile.
Where the profile changes things is that with a 45 for example theres less sidewall flexing than on a 75. Less give in the tyre makes for tighter handling and more stability but less softening of the ride for passenger comfort. A 6'' wide rim when its not under duress will always place 6'' (or thereabouts) worth of tread down onto the road whatever its profile.
As far as perception of grip goes I think your getting confused with the fact that wider tyres in general use these days do give much better grip than ever before in the dry but the down side of the increased width is the snowshoe effect. Where a pram wheel width tyre would cut throught the snow or water , a conventional tread on a wider tyre may not and just sit on it. Thats one reason we're seeing more directional treads and those that look like several different treads on one tyre as opposed to the old fashioned block style of years ago and the tread min was changed years ago from 1 to 1.6 mm (and should be reviewed again).
Post last edited on 24/08/2008 11:49:26
Technically that is correct, but what happens is that a standard tyre of for arguments sake 155/80/13 would have a low profile tyre reeplacement on the same wheel of around 165/70/13. In order to get the same radius of the wheel and therefore preserve speedometer accuracy and ground clearance, then the tyre radius must be preserved.
More often than not, when a low profile tyre is fitted it is accompanied with a different wider and larger wheel, so the aforementioned example might even be replaced with a tyre in the region of 205/50/14
The op suggested that it is just a case of swapping the tyres so I assume that the wheels are the same. However the price of £140 to swap 4 tyres over is through the roof when you consider that you can buy 4 cheap tyres and have them fitted for £99. OK, the tyres are dearer, but changing a tyre is no more labour intensive on an expensive tyre than it is on a cheap one.
What's more, if the wheels are the same, I but they just swap the wheels over.
Thankyou for all your input and taking time to try to help us with our decision.
We decided to go with the complete new set of wheels and were charged £98.00 (and not the £140.00 quoted by them earlier) by the dealership for labour and the swap. I instantly felt more comfort on the road when we drove from the dealership and found the steering easier and more controlable.
It was confirmed that the new tyres we had fitted (goodyear which included new rims too) would be about 1/3 the price of the ones we had taken off to replace and cannot waite to try them when towing in the next few weeks.
Im sure we made the right decision now.
Thanks again everyone and im sure that it wont be the last time we will seek your help and advice.
Come on LDKO, admit it, you were wrong, rolling profiles and wheel diameters were never discussed however potentialy relevant to the original question, we were talking the footprint put onto the driving surface and a 6" width wheel and tyre combo puts a 6" footprint whatever the profile, or as youve introduced it, rolling diameter is behind it therfore same grip
heres a link to calculate maintaining your speedo and gearing accuracy, you'll see you can maintain the footprint (width of rubber on the road) and rolling diameter (tyre + wheel combo)and just remove the "low profile ride feel" Perfect for the original query if it had been asking for figures. Mind you, no mean rask to hit the right combo of numbers.
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Topic: Towing with low profile tyres info needed
