I thought I had got this one right in my head but along comes the C and CC in their latest magazine (October) and it has thrown me into a state of confusion.
I will put down the exact words so that you can all judge. Under 'Tech Talk (Page 49) the question is,
"I'm nearly 70. What happens to my driving licence?
The Answer
"I've recently received several queries from Club members who are about to turn 70 and find it's time to renew their driving licences. In a nutshell, just before your 70th birthday you should receive a renewal form from the DVLA for a photocard licence.
If you tow a caravan with a car then you simply need to renew your licence because the key category B+E (for cars and trailers totalling a weight of up to 3500kgs each) is retained 'Grandads Rights.'
Should you wish to drive something heavier than 3500kgs you must retain Category C1 on your licence To do this you will need to send in the completed medical report form D4 with your renewal application. Your Doctor will fill this in but be aware there's a cost involved The same applies for Category D1 which is for minibuses.
With apologies to the C and CC magazine who's content I have lifted straight from their pages, I am having trouble that part of their response that I have put into bold print.
It was always my understanding that if the unit you were towing (car and caravan ) had a weight that exceeded 3500kgs then you needed to have the medical that the Iain Geddes refers to further down the report, ie my Audi A6 has a MGW of approx 2200kgs and when combined with my Lunar (MTPLM 1500kgs) then the whole unit weighs more than 3500kgs and I hwould need to have a medical but Iain Geddes says otherwise.
The question is,"Who is right"
------------- How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!
look at the dft transport site yourself. i,m sure even after 70 that b+e allows any weight trailer as long as you dont break the trainweight of the towing unit. it could be upto alot more than the c1+e allows. mine can have a train of 9,600kg and be driven on a car licence. just needs down plating of the unit.
the caravan club and most of the caravan mags dont really know what they are talking about .you cant rely on their info .just ring swansea or the driver standards agency .much more truthfull. c,cc are still stuck on 80 percent rules. they just havent woke up to 2010 yet. cheers alan.
at the moment you tow using the b+e of your licence .the c1+e doesnt come into force till the towing vehicle is 3,500kg or over. you will just carry on as normal i believe.
the caravan club and most of the caravan mags dont really know what they are talking about .you cant rely on their info .just ring swansea or the driver standards agency .much more truthfull. c,cc are still stuck on 80 percent rules. they just havent woke up to 2010 yet. cheers alan.
The C&CC recommend 85% for a match especially for a novice, what the driver chooses to do is up to them.
The article is correct though it is missing an important detail for the C1 renewal that I'm sure they'll ammend.
there is no trainweight restriction on b+e thats why many older people are going for 5th wheelers . . like i say i can drop my 6.3 ton down to 3.5 ton gvw and keep the train of 9.6ton . i dont make the rules i just abide them. you can get a transit thats 3,5ton and as a train of 6.5ton .was in the local ford dealer this morning and talking about it. if you go the 5th wheel way its much more stable . . any one wanting more info let me know we can always talk on the phone . and you dont need a class one even to tow an artic if you are younger than 70 so long as the unit weighs less than 3,020kg. . i try to specialise in 5ers as a hobby. being an ex transport manager i think its the way to go.
cheers alan.
its not the c1+e thats the problem . you can tow way more just using a b+e thats the point . just obey the rules , thats what they want.
there is no trainweight restriction on b+e thats why many older people are going for 5th wheelers .
That is incorrect. There is a restriction on maximum train mass [let's use the correct terms please] simply it is 7000kgs for B+E licence. As this licence allows a vehicle up to 3500kgs and a trailer of 3500kgs.
The 5th wheel trailers get around this as they are semi-trailers. The load through the kingpin [5th wheel coupling] is not part of the trailer load, it is part of the tractor unit's [pick-up truck's] load and as such you can have with such arrangements a 4500kgs trailer with a 2500kgs tractor.
i,m sorry but i am correct .b+e allows any weight trailer as long as the trainweight of the towing unit is not broken. ..its in black and white on the dft site and you can ask dvla. its quite common for commercial vehicles to be down rated to allow the use of b+e iveco do it and then you end up with a train of 8.700kg on a 3,500kg vehicle. . its the way around the silly rules. many 5th wheel campers are not artics they only put about 500kg on the pin they just use the hitch as a hitch. you need to put at least 20percent of the loaded trailer weight on to the towing unit to be artic. the 5th wheel campers dont ,but make use of the large train weight offered by these vehicles. even a ford transit can have a train of 6,500kg these days .and could make an ideal 5er tug. as they only weigh approx 1876 kg. kerb weight. so it could tow a 4,600kg trailer if its a normal trailer or a 5th wheel hitch it doesnt matter. please go to the dft driving licence site look for towing caravans or trailers with a vehicle up to 3.500kg its explained very easily . there is no towing ratio restriction. this category allows even greater loads than the c1+e . its the way forward for over 70,s keep to a vehicle under 3,500kg gvw but get one with a big trainweight. the use of a 5th wheel makes it much more stable to drive and easier to drive.cheers alan.
just spoken to dvla on 0300 7906801 and i certainly am correct . do ring them and verify its your licence . be a shame to miss out because you dont know the rules.
Good post vwalan; but, it was a lot of gobbledegook for something that simply says transferable mass [or transferable load] is permissible as long as non of the upper limits are exceeded.
Fine arrangement for those using the more stable king pinned 5th wheel hitch, but if someone reading this thread thinks [and they do] I can have a huge caravan on the back of my car and then get seriously out of shape on the highway, where do the liabilities stop? Just an open thought, don't dwell on it.
I didn't intend to start up a hornets nest when I started this thread but it would seem that I was not alone in thinking the 3500kgs weight was "car and van' combined.
I have been giving duff info to people who, in the past have relied on me.
It looks like a little humble pie will be eaten and a few pints given out.
------------- How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!
If you gained your driving licence before 1 January 1997, you will be entitled to drive any vehicle-and-trailer combination up to 8250kg total weight, of which the towing vehicle?s maximum weight must not exceed 7500kg. This right remains while you still have this particular licence, but is removed if it is withdrawn. This means that if you are disqualified or made to re-take the test you will lose the right to drive heavier vehicles without further testing and will revert to the post-1997 rules. For pre-1997 licences that are still current at 70 years of age, there are some extra medical rules if you wish to renew an existing right to drive vehicle and trailer combinations of up to 8250kg maximum weight. To keep this entitlement you must take the D4 medical test, which your doctor will charge you for, and you must be able to pass the existing standard car eyesight test. Unless you satisfy these conditions you will also have to revert to the post-1997 rules. Details can be found on the DVLA website (www.dvla.gov.uk). Look for form INF40, also available from post offices or by telephone (0870 240 0009).
Licence gained after 1 January 1997:
If you gained your licence on or after 1 January 1997, then you will be restricted to driving or towing with a car (or light commercial vehicle) with a maximum weight of 3500kg. Note this is not the actual weight as loaded, but the vehicle?s maximum allowable weight, or gross vehicle weight, as set by the manufacturers ? you will find this in your car?s handbook.
You can tow a trailer or caravan with this licence, but its maximum weight must not exceed 750kg ? giving a total possible maximum outfit weight of 4250kg. If you wish to pull a caravan weighing more than 750kg (in practice, this covers all conventional caravans), you must follow the restriction that the maximum allowed weight of the car-plus-caravan combination weighs no more than 3500kg, and that the caravan?s maximum weight does not exceed 100 percent of the car?s unladen weight (this is not the same as the car?s kerbweight ? have a look at the panel on this page for a full explanation).
What makes this rule appear rather odd is that if you wish to tow a trailer that weighs over 750kg, you actually end up with a lower total limit for the car-plus-caravan outfit than you would if you were towing a trailer under 750kg, where the total can be 4250kg.
If you want to exceed any of the above limits, you need to take a further driving test. For post-1997 drivers, a B+E test (E refers to entitlement to tow trailers over 750kg) can be arranged to give you the same rights as the pre-1997 car driver. It is not a hard test for a seasoned caravanner, but a novice would need some instruction. Professional tuition is advisable but not compulsory, though you will need to do a lot of homework on the test details and minimum test vehicle requirements if you do this yourself. Some test details are available to view on the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) website (www.dsa.gov.uk ? go to the Learners? section) and on the Driving Instructors Association (DIA) (www.driving.org, which has a search facility for driving instructors by postcode).
The above seems to infer that if you don't do the D4 application and pass the medical side then you will revert to the Post 1997 rules, ie the total MAM of car and caravan mustn't exceed 3500 kg.
Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 01/10/2010
The above seems to infer that if you don't do the D4 application and pass the medical side then you will revert to the Post 1997 rules, ie the total MAM of car and caravan mustn't exceed 3500 kg.
Ali
That's how I read it too
I have had conversations with people who were preparing to downsize when 3 score years and 10 passed by
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Topic: 70yrs old Towing limits. Are they Right?
