So we've almost bought a new caravan, an Avondale Harrier 1997 which seems amazing for the price we've got it for but thats not my question...
we have a Vauxhall Meriva 1.6 design petrol (2007) which im led to believe is capable of towing max 1200kg and weighs 1855 Max and 1325 kerb
The avondale weighs 1050 unladen and 1300 MAM
I passed after 1997 so i have a max of 3.5 tonn
So both car and caravan come to 3155Kg so am i right in thiking that im ok to tow this legally ?
Also ... If the caravan is loaded to maximum ... it takes it over the maximum my car says it can tow .. can i get away with just not filling the caravan with stuff? (ie .. to keep it under the 1300kg and closer to 1050kg?? )
Not a match sadly. The caravan laden weight MPTLM is 1300kg, which exceeds the cars towing limit of 1200kg.
The police would have plenty to say about this, plus it would invalidate your insurance plus any warranty you may have, for exceeding the manufacturers towing limit.
You're correct in that you're well within the post 97 weights, but in this case that's irrelevant to this match.
Plus (I only believe this to be true from other posts on here, so get clarification) if you're pulled over, the police won't take into account what the van actually weighs.... only what it says on the weight plate, so they refer to the 1300kg only. The lightly loaded argument doesn't wash....
May I first state that for a beginner the outfit you describe is not at all recommended even if you can load it light enough to be legal.
Check what your Gross Train Weight is as not all cars can tow the max tow weight when fully loaded. To my knowledge, loading a caravan lightly is possible to keep under the max towing weight, but loosing 100kg to get down to the 1200kg max tow weight will be difficult as you have to include the battery & gas bottles within your payload.
Another rule of the post 1997 licence is that the MTPLM or MAM of the caravan cannot be higher than the Mass in Service figure on your V5 for the car.
So while it may just be legal if you have an empty caravan it is so far outside the recommended paramiters (caravan to weigh no more that 85% of the kerb weight) that all I can say is do not do.
I'm not new to towing BTW, I've towed a fair bit before, trailers and caravans etc.
Im not overly worried about it being close to maximum etc but more worried about the legalities. I wouldnt want to be pulled and fined because the caravan MAM is 100Kg more than the car can tow
I thought the Car max towing weight was something applied by manufacturers and actually had no relevance in law?
i.e. as long as the Caravan doesn't weigh more than the car and the Gross train weight of the outfit for that car is not exceeded?
So in this example, if the car is loaded to a total of say 1700kgs and the caravan is at 1300kgs - the total train weight is 3000kgs and the ratio < 85%
Although, personally i wouldn't want to tug it with a 1.6 petrol (unless you're going to the Netherlands!)
Whattowcar.com (not always accurate on the figures) But it says 100kg too heavy for your car and 5th gear will be useless.
Hill starts... you may have all sorts of problems to get going.
4th gear max speed 70mph but that drops to 60mph with a headwind.
Top gear max speed 57mph. I would be worried the engine will blow up before you get to your destination.
I've got a meriva (which is not used at all for towing) it's only a 1.4 petrol but I sometimes can't get the thing to pull away on it's own let alone with a caravan on! It's awful in the wet too!! Can't wait to get another car!
Quote: Originally posted by Gareth72 on 19/7/2011
Plus (I only believe this to be true from other posts on here, so get clarification) if you're pulled over, the police won't take into account what the van actually weighs.... only what it says on the weight plate, so they refer to the 1300kg only. The lightly loaded argument doesn't wash....
I think this may not be true. The plate says MTPLM, which means Maximum Permissible Total Mass. The MRO weight is more or less cast in stone, but what is added in the form of habitation equipment is acceptably variable up to what the vehicle can legally tow within the MTPLM.
It's the same with trailers. These have a maximum loading capacity. If hauling very light loads, a tow vehicle does not automatically have to be capable of the load that the trailer is capable of carrying.
Fully understand the logic of that, as I said though I only believe that to be true from other posts i've read.... Seem to recall the argument was that the only weight the police could refer to at the roadside would be the MPTLM..... unless you were able to convince the cop who pulled you over to accompany you to the nearest weighbridge to prove the van weighed less..... Can't recall which post it was on, but that was the gist of it. Personally I wouldn't wanna risk points on my licence, fine, etc in the hope that an amiable bobby would take time out to come to the weighbridge with me!
I would like to think that the case would be thrown out of court if the police had not verified the actual weight - I'm sure that they use the figures from weighbridges when taking hauliers to court for overloading, rather than some weight plate on the actual artic or lorry....
Of course, it's much more sensible to match car and van properly using the max permitted figures... makes for a much more comfortable and safer ride.
Gram
------------- What's the difference between a chicken?
would agree with gram, in the dim and distant past (well 4 years ago) before I bought my van i spoke to a mate of a mate who was a senior traffic cop and he advised that if you did get pulled for overloading they would weigh the car and van on a weighbridge. now as I was and still am in the same boat (or rig) with a car that has a max tow weight of 1000kg and a van who's gross weight is 1050, after i bought the van I took her to a weighbridge with the battery, gas bottles, spare wheel and a few other bits and bobs in and weighed her, she came in at about 880kg, before my 1st trip I got the bathroom scales out, set them to metric and proceeded to weigh everything else that was going into the van, iirc it all added up to 940kg including the van. Right so well within limits. as i tour on my own now I know there is less stuff in the van so it is lighter, reckon I lost about 20kg... wish I could do the same wih my own weight lol
The actual laden weight of the Caravan must be less than its Maximum Authorised Mass1 (MAM) (the new term for gross weight shown on the caravan 'weight plate'.
The caravan's Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) must not be greater than the towing car's Maximum Permissible Towing Mass (MPTW) defined by the car manufacturer.
Mass in Running Order (MRO) is the unladen weight of the standard specification caravan as it leaves the factory. From 2011 this includes some items that used to be part of the 'user payload' – gas bottles, water in toilet/heating systems, hook-up and battery. Check caravan data carefully to make sure you know what's been included in the MRO figure quoted.
Tow car
You must not exceed the Maximum Authorised Mass2 (MAM) – the weight of the car fully laden including passengers, luggage tow bracket and the nose-weight of the caravan.
The combined actual laden weight of the car and caravan must not exceed the Gross Train Weight (GTW) – the maximum permitted weight of car and caravan together specified by the car maker.
Mass in Running Order (MRO) or Kerb Weight is defined by the vehicle manufacturer and normally includes a 90% full fuel tank, and the driver but no load other than standard equipment/tools. MRO doesn't include the weight of the tow-bracket.
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Topic: Towing Advice ...
