Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 08/10/2013Just had a look online. The b+e test is £115 during normal working hours and £141 during evenings and weekends.
Thats just the DSA test fee but including the training it is more likely to total between £500 and £700
The safety questions, reversing and uncoupling can be self taught to DSA BE test standard by looking for videos on youtube etc but the way the DSA want you to drive on the road is usually only possible by using an instructor
Also the vehicle and trailer used for the test must conform to specific DSA test standards
------------- EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor
Thats just the DSA test fee but including the training it is more likely to total between £500 and £700
The safety questions, reversing and uncoupling can be self taught to DSA BE test standard by looking for videos on youtube etc but the way the DSA want you to drive on the road is usually only possible by using an instructor
Also the vehicle and trailer used for the test must conform to specific DSA test standards
Wow those cost are just crazy, i'd go back to plan a and down rate your caravan
If it is an ALKO chassis, it will probably have the maximum weight on it. The MTPLM is not a legal requirement and does not conform to statutory requirements so you cannot be prosecuted on it. The MTPLM plate is not required on a caravan or trailer.
If stopped by VOSA or the police, they will check the load index on the tyres and this should be higher than the MTPLM of the caravan, i.e. if MTPLM is 1400kg then on a single axle load rating should be at least 700kg on each tyre.
They may then look for the plate or sticker on the chassis, but will definitely check the train weight.
If over the stipulated weights, two offences have been committed, one exceeding train weight of towing vehicle and secondly invalid driving licence.
Chances of it happening are almost zero but still not worth taking the chance as it means you need to weigh the outfit before each holiday or break.
If we need to spend £1000 - 1400 for the two of us to do the b+e test then this will need to come off the budget for the caravan! Want to try and avoid this!
Iank0 -are you sure about the weight stamped on the chasis always being used?
We would be well within the max towing weight of the car nd well within the gross train weight of the cqcar sed on the mtplm, but not sure about the if we used the weight marked on the chasis as I have no idea what it is.
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 08/10/2013If it is an ALKO chassis, it will probably have the maximum weight on it. The MTPLM is not a legal requirement and does not conform to statutory requirements so you cannot be prosecuted on it. The MTPLM plate is not required on a caravan or trailer.
If stopped by VOSA or the police, they will check the load index on the tyres and this should be higher than the MTPLM of the caravan, i.e. if MTPLM is 1400kg then on a single axle load rating should be at least 700kg on each tyre.
They may then look for the plate or sticker on the chassis, but will definitely check the train weight.
If over the stipulated weights, two offences have been committed, one exceeding train weight of towing vehicle and secondly invalid driving licence.
Chances of it happening are almost zero but still not worth taking the chance as it means you need to weigh the outfit before each holiday or break.
If anyone believes that above then you are taking on hell of a big risk and will need a damn good traffic barrister in crown court !
The authorities WILL take the MTPLM or plated MAM that has been put on it by the manufacturer as the MAM for that trailer
If there is no plate THEN the total of the tyre load ratings will be used and that WILL be higher than any plated MAM
If the quote above was correct then loads would be getting done for exceeding the B licence towing laws
------------- EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor
Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 08/10/2013If we need to spend £1000 - 1400 for the two of us to do the b+e test then this will need to come off the budget for the caravan! Want to try and avoid this!
Iank0 -are you sure about the weight stamped on the chasis always being used?
We would be well within the max towing weight of the car nd well within the gross train weight of the cqcar sed on the mtplm, but not sure about the if we used the weight marked on the chasis as I have no idea what it is.
A design weight stamped on and a plated weight are different - its the plated weight for licencing and loading laws
------------- EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor
That makes more sense ROG - so if there is no weight plate then then they will go off the chassis design weight/tyre load ratings. Otherwise the manufacturers plate stands.
Otherwise there would be problems with trucks - I believe they are regularly downplated for tax or license rules.
I am still waiting for a reply from the manufacturer...
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 08/10/2013If it is an ALKO chassis, it will probably have the maximum weight on it. The MTPLM is not a legal requirement and does not conform to statutory requirements so you cannot be prosecuted on it. The MTPLM plate is not required on a caravan or trailer.If stopped by VOSA or the police, they will check the load index on the tyres and this should be higher than the MTPLM of the caravan, i.e. if MTPLM is 1400kg then on a single axle load rating should be at least 700kg on each tyre.
They may then look for the plate or sticker on the chassis, but will definitely check the train weight.
If over the stipulated weights, two offences have been committed, one exceeding train weight of towing vehicle and secondly invalid driving licence.
Chances of it happening are almost zero but still not worth taking the chance as it means you need to weigh the outfit before each holiday or break.
If anyone believes that above then you are taking on hell of a big risk and will need a damn good traffic barrister in crown court !
The authorities WILL take the MTPLM or plated MAM that has been put on it by the manufacturer as the MAM for that trailer
If there is no plate THEN the total of the tyre load ratings will be used and that WILL be higher than any plated MAM
If the quote above was correct then loads would be getting done for exceeding the B licence towing laws
I am correct regarding the MTPLM plate for caravans as it is not mandatory as it does not conform to mandatory legislation. This is prior to Oct 2012 as after that date all trailers have a plated fixed to the chassis. The MTPLM plate on the caravan is generally only stuck on and is not fixed. You are correct regarding if no plate, they check the tyre loads which I had mentioned.
I think I'd rather tell a court that the plate isn't relevant assuming I'd done my own research and brought the appropriate evidence to court to substantiate the fact.
Telling the traffic officer or vosa at the side of the road might be more tricky unless I was previously prepared and had the papers in the glove box. Even then he/she is unlikely to believe it.
The fact they take the tyre load ratings if no plate is fitted seems daft. Suppose I can get a deal on higher rated tyres and choose them? My twin axle bailey has 84 load indexed tyres. If I got a deal on 91 indexed and fitted them I could be over MAM? Or on the flip side I needed 91 indexed and couldn't afford it. I take the chance and fit 84's and also remove the plate to cover it up. Now I'm both legal and dangerous?
From what I have read over the last 24 hours if there is no plate then they will take the lowest of the: hitch rating, tyre rating & alxe rating.
For a long time (1982 was mentioned in a few places) it has been a legal requirement to have the maximum weight clearly marked on the trailer. Therefore if there isn't a max weight marked or a plate with the max weight on, they could probably prosecute on this alone. I guess they would use the other info to proove the combination was unsafe as well as ilegal.
Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 12/10/2013
The manufacturer has now confined they will not reduce the plated MTPLM. Looks like a change of car will be the cheapest option...
And then what ? You'll be running with a lighter car and heavier caravan which will mean a poorly matched combination leaving yourself open to possible stability issues especially if your towing at or close to 100%.
Sorry but the the safer option is to sit the B+E and get the entitlement
Quote: Originally posted by neil and lena on 12/10/2013
Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 12/10/2013The manufacturer has now confined they will not reduce the plated MTPLM. Looks like a change of car will be the cheapest option...
And then what ? You'll be running with a lighter car and heavier caravan which will mean a poorly matched combination leaving yourself open to possible stability issues especially if your towing at or close to 100%.
Sorry but the the safer option is to sit the B+E and get the entitlement
Depends how much lighter the car is because the OP only have to loose 10 kgs from the GVW - he could fine a car with a lower GVW which has a higher kerb weight
------------- EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor
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Topic: Downplating / reducing MTPLM on VIN Plate
