We currently tow a folding camper (MTPLM 750kg) with a Ford Grand C-Max, 1.6 TDCi (115bhp, 199lb.ft) but will be looking to swap to a caravan at some point in the near future.
It will need to be four berth with bunks, toilet a must but shower and kitchen facilities not so important.
Have narrowed it down to:
- Elddis Explore 304 (MTPLM ~1043kg)
- Adria Altea 390DS (MTPLM ~1100kg)
- Bailey Ranger 470/4 (MTPLM ~1180kg)
The 304 is probably favourite as the layout looks best, although yet to see one in the flesh.
The cars max tow weight is 1200kg (around 80% of kerbweight), so all the above are possible on paper.
The question is, what do you think this would be like in the real world? Anyone with a similar outfit? Even the 750kg camper we currently tow is certainly noticeable in terms of performance, especially along with a car full and on hills.
We had a Focus estate with the same engine and a 1200kg max tow. We towed a Bailey Ranger 460/4, MTPLM 1184kg, down to the Dordogne and apart from some of the long hills in Northern France the car performed well. On some of the long uphill drags we could have done with more power but we were never down to third gear so it wasn't too bad. There are only two of us so the car was not heavily loaded, if we had a car full of kids, bikes etc I think we would have struggled.
I think I would try a caravan with your current car and see how you get on, you could always change the car in the future.
I agree with Rob. Your car will be capable of towing these caravans and the combination will be legal. However, all of the caravans you have shortlisted are at least 300kg heavier than your current camper and you will feel the difference.
If you're planning to tow mainly short distances to local sites I wouldn't worry about that too much, but if you're looking at going to somewhere like France or beyond there will be times when you wish you had more power.
------------- "Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."
We tow a Bailey Pursuit 400-2 1150 MTPLM with our Peugeot Partner Teepee, 1.6 HDI 115 BHP.
It tows well but is noticeably harder work than the Dandy at 500kg. It's illustrated by the fuel consumption of 50mpg easily solo, 43mpg with Dandy but lucky to get 30mpg with caravan.
The main factor is the FC is lower so much less wind resistance. Yes it is harder work on hills but there aren't that many hills on motorways.
We had a folding camper too 750kg we towed with Alfa Romeo 1.6 diesel 105 bhp cars kerb weight 1320kg max tow weight 1300kg. We changed to a caravan Bailey Ranger 460/4 mtplm 1184kg the car we feel tows the caravan better than it did the camper I have no idea why this. But we don't have any problems at all it flies up the hills and is rock solid, although when towing there is quite a drop in fuel consumption. I see no reason why yours wouldn't be any different although we have a little more torque at 236lbs than you do we also have a little less bhp than you. I would recommend Bailey we are on our 3rd now and have had great times and trouble free too.
hope this helps and good luck
------------- its our imperfections that makes us perfect
How are you all even considering towing a caravan so close to the maximum capacity of your cars? If your max is 1200kgs, shouldn’t you be towing around 1000kgs . Or less. Am I going mad or are those combinations a recipe for disaster
Quote: Originally posted by DarrenElbrow on 03/5/2018
How are you all even considering towing a caravan so close to the maximum capacity of your cars? If your max is 1200kgs, shouldn’t you be towing around 1000kgs . Or less. Am I going mad or are those combinations a recipe for disaster
The OP says 1200kg is 80% of the cars kerb weight so well within the match capabilities.
The tow limit of 1200kg is the maximum weight a fully loaded car can repeatedly tow and set off on a 12% gradient. The focus diesel will have enough grunt on the move.
Back in the day people towed just fine with non turbo petrol. As a child I travelled thousands of miles in a 1977 Mazda 323 with 59HP and 93Nm of torque towing a Monza. Todays cars are way beyond that.
Www.whattowcar.com or the Caravan Clubs own outfit match services may give you a more realistic view of what you can expect from your specific intended outfit, plus if you are lucky, a full review from someone who has actually tried and tested the same combination as the one you are considering.
I have towed various 'lightweight' combinations over the years, from a tiny 3.60 5berth Monza with a Honda Civic 89bhp in the early 1980s, through to a couple of Avondales, and my last Caravan was a 4 berth Lunar Zenith 4 1100kg towed by a 1.8 Honda Civic petrol, which was fine, until you hit a Headwind or came across a long motorway gradient like the crawl uphill on the M1 southbound just after the Junction with the M18. Pulling off at traffic lights on a steep hillstart could also sometimes result in stalling the engine, or a strong smell of burning clutch, and we ended up sometimes making a detour to find a more suitable route to avoid such problems occuring. During this time, our car was never heavily laden as theres just the two of us, and mostly awning and contents free, apart from a couple of lightweight folding chairs onboard the caravan.
The other thing to consider with a lightweight caravan is exactly where the cutbacks have been made to reduce weight. Sometimes these are at the cost of comfort, reduced bed widths and lengths and thinner mattresses to sleep on often make what othewise looks like a lovely little caravan a nightmare every morning you wake up with back ache, knee ache from sitting with reduced leg room in a narrower caravan, or not being able to shut the toilet door properly with space to manouver if you are a larger person or need to toilet a small child and be in there with them.
The bedding senario was a reality for one couple with a brand new Explore caravan out on Dannys Paddock CL last August, the beds and thin seating were so uncomfortable that this couple were already considering exchanging their caravan Asap as the wife was having to take daytime naps after sleeping badly during the night, not something you really expect from your holiday.
Before buying our Avante, we looked at the lightweight Venus range from Lunar, but again, Narrow width, lack of propper shower cubilcle lining other than a all round curtain and usual vinyl wallbaord, and thin mattresses soon made us walk away.
The whole trend is to make caravan with more onboard equipment than their older models from the 80s and 90s, where you could get some models designed to be towed by a Mini Or a fairly small family car and some were as light as 600kg fully laden and much more compact with a 12ft body length the average, and a 16ft considered huge!
The small Freedom Microlight caravans are still available today for those who want to tow with a low powered towcar, but again at the cost of greatly reduced internal space and for some people, comfort.
We are now lucky enough to have a 2.2 CRV that tows our 1240 Avante like a dream in all conditions, so much so that its easy sometimes to forget that the caravan is on the back, and the stress and worry over suitable route planning, delayed journeys due to strong headwinds, and frayed nerves at pulling off at steep gradients is all a thing of the past, and well worth the upgrade, and for once we have put 'the horse infront of the cart' so to speak, and we are so glad that we did.
Julia
------------- Just love to be out amoungst Nature and Wildlife
Celebrating 37 years of Caravanning in 2019, Recently Considered Retiring, but Totally Addicted for Life!
Thanks for all of your replies. Nice to hear some have had similar outfits. You've confirmed my suspicions that it's possible but will be lacking at times. Maybe another thing in favor of the 304 with it being lightest as the car is usually fully loaded, roof box, bikes, etc when we go away.
I hear you on the compromises and comfort romany but I would hope they could be at least on a par with the folding camper in that respect.
To be honest I doubt you will notice much difference between the three vans. I would go with the one which suits you best on layout and space etc. Just make sure you actually see one in the flesh.
Our first caravan had a mtplm of 1249. We had been towing our folding camper for years and did all the calculations for our Nissan Tino 1.8 Petrol which, on paper, looked fine to tow the caravan, at just about 80% of kerbweight.
However, on our first trip out we did not feel safe at all. The caravan felt in charge of the car, rather than the other way around and I remember it feeling really twitchy. We experimented a few times with different loading combinations and slightly more/less noseweight etc but it never felt safe to us and we experienced a few dodgy moments when being overtaken by large vehicles. In the end we felt so unsafe that we changed the car to a much heavier 2l diesel which was miles better.
I agree with navver go with what you like the best, we have never had any issues with our ranger and I feel theres no compromise with more expensive luxurious vans mine does exactly the same, Its very comfortable and is spacious enough for us.
As for weight of car to caravan whilst its always something to be taken seriously experience and correct loading and regular maintenance will make for a safe and stable outfit thesedays the cars have so much power compared with those of yesteryear you shouldn't have any problems.
Good luck with whatever you choose hope you have lots of fun with it
------------- its our imperfections that makes us perfect
The end bathroom of the bailey would certainly be useful and they have been around longer and therefore older and cheaper available. Reading around the web Elddis seem to be the one to avoid.
Final choice will likely come down to what turns up at the right price when we are ready.
All caravans have their share of problems with damp etc as the front and rear panels are made mainly by the same company and are all prone to crack. When you go and look at a van check the outside for cracks they may be very small and can look like a scratch usually found along the edges by the awning rail, but always check for damp with a damp meter anyway or pay someone to do it for you, a mobile engineer will help google MCEA.
Our Bailey is a 460/4 it has a fixed bed and the front seats convert to a double, it has a end corner washroom, and the usual hot water, oven, heating etc. It suits us we have 2 girls 16 and 17 so there is four of us we find we have enough room and sometimes we don't even bother with the awning, although it is better if we do put it up
ours is a 2008 and these can be picked up for 5 to 6 grand
------------- its our imperfections that makes us perfect
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Topic: 1.6 TDCi and lightweight four berth
