Read an article yesterday on Google news a test of an electric v petrol Mokka there was only 19p per mile difference, with electricity going up that will reduce and there is about £10k difference in price between the all electric and entry level petrol so you would need to do approximately 52K miles before breaking even
Difficult to work out a break even point as EV owners do save on servicing (far fewer parts involved), tax, LEZ charges but the vehicle is more expensive to buy. I know someone who charges his EV directly from his solar panels.
Not for us yet due to “range anxiety” rather than cost per mile.
Those that enthuse EV's as cheap to run are taking a snapshot in time view of current situation, inevitably, as was the case of 'cheap to run diesels' a few years ago, that WILL change in time as tax revenues fall from IC engined vehicles and various powers that be clamp down on EV's to compensate, motorist of any flavour are and have always been easy targets for raising cash!
Central Government aside, if they think the likes of London's Mayor Khan, and other major city officials, will give up on substantial revenues raised from IC vehicles when they become a minority and EV's are the majority, think again, it was never really about pollution control, it was always about cash raising, as every measure taken over decades has failed to achieve it's proclaimed goals, the ongoing schemes just get more grandiose and raise more cash, whereas in reality they should have been abandoned as abject failures, and alternative methods adopted! Khan for sure can't afford to loose the cash flow!
I think many EV owners are in for a nasty shock in a few years time if they don't grasp the consequences of the demise of IC vehicles and the loss of multiple tax revenues derived from them!
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 11/9/2022
Those that enthuse EV's as cheap to run are taking a snapshot in time view of current situation, inevitably, as was the case of 'cheap to run diesels' a few years ago, that WILL change in time as tax revenues fall from IC engined vehicles and various powers that be clamp down on EV's to compensate, motorist of any flavour are and have always been easy targets for raising cash!
Central Government aside, if they think the likes of London's Mayor Khan, and other major city officials, will give up on substantial revenues raised from IC vehicles when they become a minority and EV's are the majority, think again, it was never really about pollution control, it was always about cash raising, as every measure taken over decades has failed to achieve it's proclaimed goals, the ongoing schemes just get more grandiose and raise more cash, whereas in reality they should have been abandoned as abject failures, and alternative methods adopted! Khan for sure can't afford to loose the cash flow!
I think many EV owners are in for a nasty shock in a few years time if they don't grasp the consequences of the demise of IC vehicles and the loss of multiple tax revenues derived from them!
Yes I too have said this for a long time. as the number of IC engined vehicles falls and the number of EVs rises, the burden of taxation will start to switch from one to the other, wiping out any running cost advantage. That along with massive hikes in electricity costs will probably make EVs more expensive to run than current IC vehicles.
Also the used value of EVs will plummet because as we know with our phones , batteries degrade quite quickly in the scheme of things and who will want say a used Tesla , that has a range of around 100 miles ( taking in battery degradation ) against newer models with far better technology that maybe can go 350 + miles?
Quote: Originally posted by urbster on 12/9/2022
Also the used value of EVs will plummet because as we know with our phones , batteries degrade quite quickly in the scheme of things and who will want say a used Tesla , that has a range of around 100 miles ( taking in battery degradation ) against newer models with far better technology that maybe can go 350 + miles?
Not an option for me and many others like me, who can only afford to buy and run older cars. My current car was 10 years old when I bought it and it's now nearly 14 years old. I will only replace it when I have to. I certainly wouldn't want to by a 10 year old EV and run the risk of the batteries needing replacing, especially as the current cost of replacement batteries is way more than I usually pay for a car.
Charging at home is either cheaper, or vastly cheaper depending on your tariff.
Charging out and about is somewhere between free, and about the same as or slightly cheaper than fossil fuel.
Tax burden on EV will undoubtedly rise. It will rise about the same speed as it does on ICE cars, meaning the gap in costs will be maintained.
2nd hand EV's are selling very well. The lifetime of a modern EV battery will highly likely exceed that of the car it's in. Replacing a failed cell will be more common than replacing an entire pack.
Happy to provide actual numbers for the costs if anyone is interested.
Do homework before buying. Friend works for a leasing company and delivered Electric car to a customer 280 miles away. Had to stop for a charge 15 miles before delivery destination and did a partial charge to get going again to reach destination. Delivered car told recipient it was not fully charged. Then asked where he could fast charge it and found nearest was over 20 miles from where he lived.
Quote: Originally posted by cliffbrown on 13/9/2022
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/19776098/nearly-30percent-more-expensive-charge-ev-petrol-car/
Interesting. Ionity (the charger brand used) are widely accepted as being the most expensive, and almost nobody uses them at their retail price. I myself have a discount with them to 35p/kWh. The article also notes "Despite this test, EVs should cost significantly less to run than any petrol alternative when charging at home overnight compared to the public charging carried out in this test.".
Net - its a bit of a headline grab...
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 13/9/2022
Do homework before buying. Friend works for a leasing company and delivered Electric car to a customer 280 miles away. Had to stop for a charge 15 miles before delivery destination and did a partial charge to get going again to reach destination. Delivered car told recipient it was not fully charged. Then asked where he could fast charge it and found nearest was over 20 miles from where he lived.
As with ANYTHING do your homework before you buy. When I got mine, there were rapid chargers 10 miles and 12 miles away from home. But I installed a home charging point, and use that for 95 out of 100 journeys I do. Since I got my EV, my town has 4 ultra-rapid chargers 18 fast chargers installed. The location 12 miles away grew from 2 to 4 to 12 Rapid chargers.
Today, If I charge from home, 200 miles costs about £5.60. Thats the equivalent of about 285mpg at £1.75/l.
At the current domestic price cap (30p/kWh) 200 miles costs £22.50. Thats the equivalent of about 70mpg at £1.75/l.
Well, based on your figures for EV costs, my PETROL car can do 200 miles for around £27 at current supermarket Petrol prices, so EV is not looking quite so exceptionally good in comparison, especially when you factor in that I can get 600 miles out of a tankful of petrol, whereas with certainty you'd have to recharge perhaps twice if not more at premium rates on a commercial 'fast, rapid, ultra-rapid charger' to cover same distance. That rather looks like on cost we'd be at parity, or you may even be out of pocket depending on which re-charge tariff you were FORCED to pay (not enough re-charge points around yet to be too picky about where you re-charge!).
I'm not knocking EV's outright, and I think they make at least some sense in certain usage, but they are not yet in a position to claim outright superiority over IC vehicles in all scenarios. An EV for me would be a financial disaster, I just don't use a car for 'local' travel where 'cheap' home charging would benefit me, the vast majority of my driving is longer distances where I would be at the mercy of high commercial re-charge costs, as no way could I get there and back on a single charge!
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 13/9/2022
Well, based on your figures for EV costs, my PETROL car can do 200 miles for around £27 at current supermarket Petrol prices, so EV is not looking quite so exceptionally good in comparison, especially when you factor in that I can get 600 miles out of a tankful of petrol, whereas with certainty you'd have to recharge perhaps twice if not more at premium rates on a commercial 'fast, rapid, ultra-rapid charger' to cover same distance. That rather looks like on cost we'd be at parity, or you may even be out of pocket depending on which re-charge tariff you were FORCED to pay (not enough re-charge points around yet to be too picky about where you re-charge!).
I agree - if your use case takes you away from home for further than the range of your car every day, then you have to take a look at the costs. As I mention, for me 95 out of 100 daily journeys are within the range of my full battery. I have had my EV since end of May last year, and its just done its 1st service (18,000 miles) so it's fairly well used - but certainly not a mega miler.
On the days I do have to charge away from home, I am not fully recharging, just charging enough to get home.
Quote:
I'm not knocking EV's outright, and I think they make at least some sense in certain usage, but they are not yet in a position to claim outright superiority over IC vehicles in all scenarios. An EV for me would be a financial disaster, I just don't use a car for 'local' travel where 'cheap' home charging would benefit me, the vast majority of my driving is longer distances where I would be at the mercy of high commercial re-charge costs, as no way could I get there and back on a single charge!
I don't think anyone is claiming outright superiority. They are more expensive up front, their towing limits are still not high, they have shorter range per "full tank", charging the tank takes physically (if not materially) longer, and the charging infrastructure is not yet as wide as would be liked.
But the question from the OP was, are they more expensive than ICE cars given the increase in electricity costs. The answer is very much - it depends - but in my case the answer, is no, its still far far cheaper to run an EV.
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Topic: Cost of running electric tow car
via mobile 10/9/2022 at 8:49pm
