The problem that we have found with our BOTH new to us Buccaneer Commodore and Kia Sorento. The Sorento replaced our previous Sorento Titan (2007) which we had had since new and had been a superb tow car in every way. The Commodore which we bought AFTER the car was on offer at a local dealer at a too-good-to-miss price and condition. We had put Buccaneers on our short list at the February Caravan Show at the NEC. We have been caravanning for nearly 30 years, all over the Continent, and UK and owned 2 single and one twin-axle caravans in that time so quite a bit of experience!!
However, on our first recent trip to Merseyside with the new combination we struggled to get the noseweight down to the towbar/Sorento noseweigh limit of 100Kg even after lightening the front end of the 'van, putting some heavier items just behind the axles and transferring a lot of caravan contents to the Sorento's boot. I realise that the van's MPTLM of 1954Kg is a heavy one considering the car's Kerb weight of 1954Kg and that the best achievable Noseweight is 5.11%. However, Sthe orento has a Gross Weight of 2,600 Kg and a Max Tow of 2,500Kg. This means that this combination IS LEGAL. I have checked with our car (Saga) and caravan insurers (Caravan Club) and neither have any restrictions on the 'van's MPTLM of 1957Kg exceeding 100% of the Sorento's Kerbweight of 1954Kg (a percentage of 100.2%)
On our return journey from Merseyside to Criccieth we experimented with changing the noseweigth on the towbar by rear-loading the 'van by putting a few heavier items over the 'van axles and leaving the internal water tank (under the rear bed) full with 50L of water and put most heavy equipment in the car. That was NOT a stable combination and we had to pull overASAP and drain the water tank. After that the caravan towed well on motorway and dual-carriageway for the 100 miles home to Criccieth, North Wales although I must confess I descended the infamous Rhuallt Hill at under 40mph
After a very demanding couple of years we now hope to resume our long-distance caravanning holidays all over the UK and into Continental Europe before old age overtakes us. (i'm 70 next month)
So now for the million dollar questions.
(1) Is this combination sensible or should we look for a heavier car?
(2) If the answer is that it IS sensible any tips on loading the car/van?
(3) If is NOT a SENSIBLE combination what car would people recommend - we don't want any type of electric vehicle as we do not yet think they are suitable for our towing needs. We would want a new/newish (up to 2 years old) car with 7 seats and good model reliability (so sorry NOT anything from the Landrover "stable") We are in the fortunate position of cost not really being an issue.
We will be VERY GRATEFUL for:
(a) Any specific answers to the above questions
(b) Particularly comments from anyone who tows a similar size 'van with a similar car, especially a Sorento.
I would be grateful for specific comments or answers to our specific problem.
Never rear load ever . no water no gear of any type, now you need to be loading from the axle slightly forward. and as low as possible
after looking at the weights for the caravan i would not even consider a sorento its just too light, ok just about legal but your running at 95% and that is too close for comfort. i would say you need to be looking at a 4x4 such as a defender/discovery etc
I've a different car and different van, but the weight ratios are similar 1310Kg MTPLM/1350Kg Kerbweight and it's a superb tow when set up right, BUT with only a 75Kg noseweight limit for car it's a struggle to keep that in order!
I too have tried a little weight further back from the van axle to offset the noseweight and it became distinctly less stable! Once I even moved a seemingly insignificant 6kg TV from the front underseat locker to the rear bathroom wardrobe, and it's detrimental effect was immediately apparent! I stopped and shifted it forwards to regain the otherwise superb stability!
My van is exceedingly nose heavy, in MIRO state it's about 15Kg over the max permitted van chassis limit at around 115Kg let alone the car's towbar limit! 40Kg is a lot of weight to try and 'lose' off the nose!
It's taken a bit of juggling of van contents to get the ideal setup. I now run with a single lightweight gas bottle (Flogas Gaslight 5Kg) in front locker, pretty much only very light stuff in the inside lockers forward of the axle. Really heavy things like awning slightly behind axle, other heavyish things above the axle. I even stack the front bench cushions (the half a dozen smaller ones, not the big long ones) back towards the axle to get a few extra kilos out of the extreme nose (you may think that's extreme, but it's 4 or 5 Kg off the nose!). Oh, and nothing vaguely heavy in high lockers. I load the car with baggage and food etc. rather than the van, that gives me a heavier tow vehicle and minimises the van weight.
As an overall set up, I keep anything of significant weight out of BOTH ends of the van, placing it amidships over/just to rear of axle, load the car as much as possible not the van. Over 5 years, and thousands of miles all over the country it's been faultless, I've even inadvertently hit over 70mph a number of times and it's still rock solid stable (car is very willing to exceed 60mph - so normally use cruise control/speed limiter to stop me failing to notice it's getting too quick!).
It's a fact of life, some tow cars are simply better than others, so you may be fighting a less than ideal tow car as well as challenging weight issues. Things like tyre pressure can have a HUGE effect on stability. When I first picked my van up from the dealers unbeknown to me the tyres were 25% underinflated to recommended pressure, and it was a pig to tow, even the ATC was kicking in at very moderate speeds. Inflating to correct pressure and it was like a different van altogether! Recent debate on here about people not bothering to increase car tyre pressures when towing, I do, mine are recommended by manufacturer to be increased by a not insignificant 6PSI or 17% on rears!
Thank you very much indeed Monty 16. Your lengthy post with your detailed approach to your similar loading problem is very helpful. I will probably try with a similar approach over the next few months and see how it goes. Certainly on the outward journey of our first trip with the 'van loaded in a similar way to yours the outfit was VERY stable on minor roads, dual carriageways and motorways. I too use the cruise control to ensure that I don't, inadvertently, pick up speed. As I said in my previous post we love our "new" Sorento and so I am loath to change it if I can avoid that. Thanks again your post is much appreciated.
Thanks too 664DaveS for your succinct towcar suggestions. Apart from the Bentley I have considered those possible alternatives. The BMW is a strong contender. The Bentley looks lovely but a bit out of my price range I think - I know of cheaper houses!!! Generally speaking I think that the Government and car manufacturers' headlong rush towards electric vehicles is going to become an increasing problems for caravanners with heavier 'vans. Certainly the range of "possibles" is already decreasing rapidly. I'm not against electric towcars as long as they can do what I need from a towcar but at the moment the limited range does not fit in with my touring intentions.
Maybe I’m biased, my X5 is a fantastic tow car. I’ve had a Sorento in the past and it was a great tow car, we only had Conqueror 580 single axle but the car was more than adequate.
Our current van is a Lunar Delta TS which weighs around 1750kg. Towing this with the BMW I can get high twenties mpg and solo I’ve seen 38-39 although depends how you drive it. Its max towing weight is 3500kgs with 150kg on the ball max.
Quote: Originally posted by clbewi on 20/7/2023
Maybe I’m biased, my X5 is a fantastic tow car. I’ve had a Sorento in the past and it was a great tow car, we only had Conqueror 580 single axle but the car was more than adequate.
Our current van is a Lunar Delta TS which weighs around 1750kg. Towing this with the BMW I can get high twenties mpg and solo I’ve seen 38-39 although depends how you drive it. Its max towing weight is 3500kgs with 150kg on the ball max.
Even the X5 is a bit on the light side for the Buccaneer caravan which cna have a maximum MTPLM of 2000kg although legally the vehicle can tow the caravan.
Out of interest IanK01 what car do you tow your buccaneer with? As I mentioned previously the headlong rush towards electric cars is making it increasingly difficult for 'vanners with heavier 'vans to find suitable tow cars both in terms of weight and range.
Quote: Originally posted by clbewi on 20/7/2023
Maybe I’m biased, my X5 is a fantastic tow car. I’ve had a Sorento in the past and it was a great tow car, we only had Conqueror 580 single axle but the car was more than adequate.
Our current van is a Lunar Delta TS which weighs around 1750kg. Towing this with the BMW I can get high twenties mpg and solo I’ve seen 38-39 although depends how you drive it. Its max towing weight is 3500kgs with 150kg on the ball max.
Even the X5 is a bit on the light side for the Buccaneer caravan which cna have a maximum MTPLM of 2000kg although legally the vehicle can tow the caravan.
Once you rule a LR Discovery out, you are pretty much down to BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Volvo if you need the 7 seats, my personal choice would probably be a Mercedes GLE 350d.
We have enough trouble trying to get the nose weight of our Swift down to 95kg without back loading the van so I feel your pain.
Thanks Paul & Nikki. We have decided to try out the sorento & Buccaneer for a few fairly local trips this Summer We will try putting the gas bottles in the car along with any other items and possibly a few heavier items over the 'van axle & secured with cargo-bars to stop ot sliding back en route. If noseweight is still a problem with great regret we'll change the Sorentofor something heavier - whilst there's still any being made. We want a 7 seater for grandparent duties. With rgard to Landrovers we're "which?" magazine readers & they're consistently flagged unfortunately for poor reliability in their annual Car Survey. I've had a few unreliable tow cars over my 30+ yrs of 'vanning but we're now in the happy position of being able to be more choosey. Thanks again.
Just throwing in a potential vehicle option. Audi Q7 50 TDI kerb weight is iro 2200kgs. I have previously owned the A6 allroad with the same V6 3.0 Tdi engine and it was utterly brilliant.
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Topic: Buccaneer Comm`d & Kia Sorento match?
via mobile 19/7/2023 at 5:10pm
