Quote: Originally posted by Supatramp on 11/10/2023
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 12/8/2023
Yes ours is matching yours. The Santa Fe Auto over 8 years ownership 33 solo and 24 towing and often lower, was the best ever we got. The motor was main dealer serviced every year and mileage still only under half the average for its age. So performance was not due to lack of maintenance. So you can see why well pleased. Both towing the same weight caravan.
You'd notice a significant difference with the 8 speed box, have seen 49mpg solo!!
I can't see how having more gears can make that much difference. We used to tow with a 2.5 litre Volvo V70 diesel automatic with a 4 speed gearbox, and we now tow with a 2 litre diesel automatic X Trail, and the Volvo did more to the gallon than the X Trail does, despite the X Trail having a 6 speed gearbox. I put it down to the fact that the Volvo was lower and sleeker than the X Trail, which is quite high and boxy. The old Volvo was very good on fuel and I regularly saw over 50mpg out of it solo on a longish journey. I rarely see more than 35mpg out of the X Trail. I think the Volvo's mpg tended to drop more when towing than the X Trail's does though. With the X Trail there is hardly any noticeable difference towing or solo. It still does about 35mpg.
Gearbox ratios must have a bearing on consumption, as when towing caravan on motorway at 60 mph the rev counter is showing 550 rpm less than the Santa Fe did. Engine on Kuga also 2.0 L whereas Santa Fe was 2.2 L
Colin, I think it comes down to gear ratios matching the 'sweet spot' on engines where they operate most efficiently. I've certainly had cars in the past with horribly mismatched gear ratios to engine characteristics, practically screaming to red line and then virtually 'bogging down' on up change because engine revs had dropped out of optimum power band - not a scenario for good fuel economy! Seem to recall my 2 litre Sierra was one of those, strangely, the 1.6 litre engine had different power characteristics (and maybe different gear ratios) and was a MUCH sweeter drive! The more gears, the greater the likelihood of keeping engine close to sweet spot - and getting best fuel economy!
It's a fairly well known phenomena where the biggest (and usually the most powerful) engine is not always the most enjoyable drive compared to a smaller engined version! - all down to power bands and gear ratios and how well they match. And sometimes manufacturers 'tinker' with engine performance in the name of emissions/fuel economy etc. (which are done at very specifically defined lab conditions, not necessarily road driving conditions!) and change for the worse what was once a perfectly good car, recall Vauxhall doing that with Cavaliers! No mechanical changes, but tweaked engine characteristics to change what had been a fine drive one year into a bit of a dog the next year!
Don't drive the huge variety of cars these days as I used to do, so a bit out of touch with more modern stuff.
As to your X Trail, not sure if it's old enough to have suffered that legacy, but Japanese Diesels were pretty legendary for being very poor cousins of European Diesels, very crude, 'agricultural' beasts, extremely poor on performance and economy, and the noise! Took the Japs a very long time to up their game, and don't think I've ever heard of any rave reviews of a Jap Diesel to this day! Your fuel economy sounds pretty grim by today's standards, will say, my current PETROL Citroen (2017, 1.2L) towing a much heavier caravan than yours can match your economy on many a journey, and I don't dawdle to conserve fuel all that much as keen to get a typical 200-300 mile journey done!
Monty, our X Trail is a 2008 model and is quite quiet. Tyre noise virtually drowns out any engine noise. The engine is actually a Renault unit that is fitted to quite a range of different vehicles. Fuel economy is not its strongest point but it is quite a good and powerful unit. Being an automatic, and I don't think Nissan picked a particularly good gearbox to use, it is limited to a 1,350kg max towing weight. However, the manual-box version of the same car has exactly the same engine and is rated to tow 2 tonnes. I'm sure it would easily as ours barely notices our caravan on the back. It is a fairly heavy car, heavier I think than the Volvo, and it's quite chunky so that wouldn't make it particularly economical, although from what I hear the face-lifted version which looks virtually identical is apparently quite a bit better on fuel. It uses the same engine but Nissan did a few tweaks to the engine management system.
You are right about the gear ratios and the sweet-spot in the rev range. Our X Trail has quite high overall gearing and never gets into 6th gear with the caravan on the back because of the 60mph speed limit. In 5th gear it is only doing around 2,000rpm at 60mph and I think it peaks at around 2,500rpm. It really wants to be doing 70mph+ to be in 6th gear. It's only doing 2,500rpm at 70mph in 5th gear, which is the same RPM as our Volvo in top gear at 70mph.
Having towed with Auto Sorento and Santa Fe autos for 20 years there is a vast difference with the 8 speed Auto Kuga. Sitting at 1300 to 1350 rpm and doing 60 mph with caravan Previous motors achieved nowhere near this and with larger cc engines but 6 speed boxes. As said more gears finds the sweet spot for efficiency.
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 11/10/2023
Having towed with Auto Sorento and Santa Fe autos for 20 years there is a vast difference with the 8 speed Auto Kuga. Sitting at 1300 to 1350 rpm and doing 60 mph with caravan Previous motors achieved nowhere near this and with larger cc engines but 6 speed boxes. As said more gears finds the sweet spot for efficiency.
Wow, those revs are very low, even lower than my X Trail. The sweet-spot with the Xtrail, certainly with regard to torque, seems to be between 2,000 and 2,500rpm. That is why if I manually engage 6th gear at 70mph it will stay in unless the speed drops below 60mph. If it does it will drop down to 5th, even if the gear selector is in manual mode. There is little torque below 1,500rpm.
Strange then that my Volvo V70 with only a 4 speed auto-box was so economical by comparison. Peak torque with that also came in between 2,000 and 2,500rpm.
On the last Santa Fe the turbo only cut in around 1800 rpm. Therefore towing at 60 mph the rev counter was on 1900 to 1950 rpm. Ford now have a 10 speed auto choice fitting to transits all for economy. Solo it will cruise on motorways doing the limit at 1200 rpm.
This motor was one of the last Kuga built with the 2.0 diesel engine 190ps,in the form of auto and AWD and was rated as the most efficient one they built.The same motor now is 2.5 petrol / electric but has a much lower tow capacity and running on petrol lower mpg. ( All for saving the planet ) what a joke..
The "greenest" car is the one you already have, whatever it might be. A new car has to be built, and that takes loads of energy and raw materials and produces pollution.
Quote: Originally posted by birdman101 on 15/10/2023
They haven't taken into account either the energy that will be required re cycling the batteries end of their life.
Quite! Lots of things that aren't taken into account. Old as it might be, I'm keeping my current car for as long as possible. While It can still be repaired when it goes wrong, and it hasn't been legislated out of existence, I'll hang onto it.
Just come home from latest trip away with caravan and did lots of miles solo. Towing to site started off with full tank and towed 270 miles and the MPG worked out 32. While away did tank fill twice and first fill got 55 and second fill 53.8 so well chuffed with motor.
We changed our 7 year old diesel Santa Fe for a new Tucson self charging hybrid.
I wasn't too bothered but wife seemed keen, it's her car.
We would have liked another Santa Fe but no diesels are available now. We tried an Ultimate hybrid, fabulous but £45K.Plus high rate of VED They had one coming in October which we were offered.
They had an Ultimate Tucson Hybrid in the showroom which was a cancelled order so we got a very good deal.(After a good drive in their demonstrator).Quite a long wait for a Tucson normally.
We have had it a month now and after doing 1200 miles first( as per handbook) towed our van to Clitheroe for a week stay.
With 230bhp it is certainly quick and has plenty of torque. Towing very stable. It can tow 1650kg, our van is less. Very smooth and quiet with good handling.
Economy 26mpg towing, solo it has shown 58mpg. Its weird when it's on electric, so quiet!
Being an Ultimate it has all the kit that the Santa Fe had, but more is touchscreen operated. Pretty good to use .
Wife loves the autobox she got used to it driving our Mini which is an auto.
VED is £180. Yes it's a bit smaller than the Santa Fe but plenty of room for 4 adults, only only 2 of us normally.
5 years unlimited warranty.
It had no spare wheel but the dealer got us a full size steel one and tools which fit in the spare wheel well once a plastic storage moulding is removed.
The PHEV is 260bhp but has a lower towing limit and costs more.
So happy bunnies so far.
It's front wheel drive but has traction control and we rarely used 4wd on our previous SUVs. I would have liked awd but it wasn't a deal breaker.
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------------- DS-There's more to life than football!!!
A day of all things motorhome and campervan. The show is held both in the main indoor arena and across the grounds. Catering, hot drinks and food options are available. Easy access to the site and free parking included. Win one of five pairs of day tickets
Topic: First tow with Kuga after Santa Fe
via mobile 11/10/2023 at 3:01pm
They had one coming in October which we were offered. 
