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Quote: Originally posted by DaneR on 01/7/2006

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The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 give consumers an unconditional cancellation right, in addition to their rights under the Sale of Goods Legislation.



Where a consumer claims goods are faulty after having had a reasonable time to examine them (which could be after the expiry of the cooling off period above) the consumer's rights under the Sale of Goods Act apply.



The Act makes it clear that if the goods do not conform to contract and the consumer exercises his or her right to reject them, they can ask for their money back, providing they do so quickly. Alternatively, they can request repair and replacement or claim compensation.



Please see the Sale of Goods factsheet for further information from www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm.

When that fails contact trading standards.

You have a watertight case from what you've said.

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I have today heard from Trading Standards, who spoke to Mr Aspinall about our situation on 30th June. It states that he has made the following comments:

'The goods were returned to him under the Distant Selling Regulations 2000 where any customer who returns goods at their own expense shouldn't incur any additional costs if their reason for return is that the goods are faulty.......Mr Aspinall feels that the tent supplied wouldn't really be considered faulty in this instance and is therefore unwilling to reimburse the carriage costs paid. He also says that the two tents were the subject of separate orders......

'Wth regard to the non return of money in relation to the groundsheet, Mr Aspinall has agreed as you have indicated, to credit your account with this money and has requested your credit card account details in order that he can do this. However I understand for security reasons you are unwilling to supply these details and have requested a cheque is sent to  you.'

1. The end caps were either loose or entirely off the lower porch poles on the Ridgipod, hence when they were inserted into the upper poles they came off and got stuck. I accept that this is only a minor fault, but surely it is still a fault? Said end caps were returned to Mr Aspinall in an envelope, within the returns package, when he failed to supply replacement poles.

2. We ordered both Ridgipod and Igloo at the same time and they were meant to be delivered in the same order (why else would I have telephoned Mr Aspinall to advise it was missing?) and documentation supports this. Mr Aspinall opted to send it out later and add a further £15 carriage charge.

3. Mr Aspinall requested that we should email credit card details for reimbursement of the money he kept in respect of the groundsheet he never even supplied, we refused to do this because of security reasons. We have never mentioned having refund by cheque.

Trading Standards also write:

'I have re-iterated the law to him regarding refunds for what are considered to be faulty goods and he is aware of this but argues the point that the problem experienced with the poles wouldn't be considered a defect.'

I have again contacted Khyam on this, since surely they are best qualified to comment on if loose and missing end caps constitutes a defect. As the glue had failed (ie defective) I fail to see how Mr Aspinall can define this as a perfect tent.

Just as a reminder, if Mr Aspinall had even attempted to resolve this matter or send replacement lower porch poles, we would have kept the tent.

I should appreciate the views of other campers; if you purchased a brand new tent and the pole end caps were loose or completely off some of the poles, whilst firmly affixed to others, would you consider this a fault?

plain and simply yes I would!

Mistakes do happen and I appreciate that some tents may have the odd part missing or be faulty (I dont know what manufacrturers do about quality control) but if I had bits missing and bits not working properly I would want those bits replaced or either a replacement tent or full refund.

PS
I perhaps should mention, we have just taken delivery of another Khyam tent; the 'Old Favourite' XXL Classic. It too has loose end caps (again, some are completely off the poles) - the retailer (a different one, obviously) says he has never encountered this before, yet we have now has this with both these new tents!

Again, I realise this is not a major fault, but anything which is not as it should be constitutes a fault, doesn't it?

One other thing, the fixed poles on the XXL have made a small hole in the tent and also the bag fabric! clearly occurred in the factory or in storage as the exterior box appears okay (interior of box is marked in line with the fixed poles, also).

Can't believe our bad luck with Khyams, so have written yet again to Customer Services for their response.

Are we just jinxed???!!!

Quote: Originally posted by kopte4ever on 01/7/2006

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Correct

khyam have a contract with aspinalls

aspinalls have contract with public, thats the way

Hence why khyam cant help you direct, it reads that they have poor service khyam. But infact they are doing the correct thing.

Good luck with trading standards

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The letter of the law legal mumbo jumbo has no bearing on the image a manufacturer will get for themselves by washing their hands of their product as soon as it leaves the warehouse....I also believe that Khyam would have every right to not supply any retailer who contribute to them getting a bad name.

All in all this doesnt do Khyam any favours, and I will now re-think my plans to purchase a Khyam Freelander

Quote: Originally posted by Andy Pandy 666 on 10/7/2006

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Hi, Liddenham...

    As I have a 'Classic XL' and previously had a 'Classic XXL' I'm quite interested in the problems you appear to be having...
   
   When you mention loose 'end caps' on the poles, what exactly are the parts you're refering too?. Do you mean the plastic foot assembly, on the bottom of the fixed legs, as these are the only 'end caps' I can think of. If these are what you're talking about, I'm pretty sure they are supposed to be removeable. they 'clip' on and off to facilitate replacement in case of breakage, as is the case with all the pole 'parts'...
   
   You really do seem to be having some 'bad luck' with your new tents at the moment. The hole in the tent fabric and bag, would suggest to me that it has been used and damaged, before you were sold it!... I've never had the slightest problem, in five years of using 'Khyam' tents... In fact, I recently bought the 'Classic Annexe' to go with my 'XL Classic' and it really is a brilliant bit of kit. The additional space is amazing and turns what is essentially a 'two man' tent (or four 'stick insects'), into a very spacious 'four man' tent...
   
   I hope your bad luck, regarding new tents, changes soon and you get the 'perfect' tent you've paid for and have every right to expect!...

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Hi Andy Pandy,

No, I am not referring to the plastic feet components, but to the plastic end caps which are (or should be) affixed to the steel poles (adjacent to the metal clips, which then insert into an upper pole), and also to the ends of those upper poles (porch poles on the Ridgipod and bedroom and porch poles on the XXL, which is an 'Old Favourite' - 4oz fabric model - and does not have the aluminium bedroom frame of the newer XXL Classic.)

These end caps (which are firmly fixed on some of the poles) are to protect the pole ends from damage and help prevent muck etc from entering (and thus corroding) the steel poles. When they are loose, they simply come off inside the adjoining poles and are a devil to get out. Some are not just loose, but off entirely and rattling around loose in the pole box.

I recognise that this is not a major issue, but it is an irritating flaw. As some of these caps are firmly affixed it is clearly a case of perished glue, and nothing more, but it is a fault - albeit minor - nevertheless. Or at least it is in my book (Mr Aspinall clearly begs to differ, but then there is the matter of carriage costs at stake).

As for the hole in the XXL tent and tent bag, that most certainly is a serious fault (but is not being contended, since the retailer was not Aspinalls, on that occasion!).

So, my question stands: when is a fault not a fault? Is it something which is determined by degrees, a Mr Aspinall asserts?

Several issues worthy of a mention from the above thread

 With regard to who has legal responsability for the faulty tent it is correct that the consumers contract lies with the retailer and then the retailers contract is in turn with the manufacturer.

However it is in the interests of the manufacturer/distributor to ensure that the consumer is satisfied in cases of genuine complaint. Whilst they do not have  a legal contract directly with the consumer they certainly have a moral one. Many retailers do not have the technical knowledge or in many cases the testing/repair capability to rectify a fault. Hence why many manufacturers are more than happy to deal directly with consumers to resolve problems.

This would appear to be a case of a lazy retailer and irresponsible distributor who have a very narrow field of vision.

Good luck with your claim

Have you contacted your credit card company - when you purchase an item using a credit card and are unable to get a refund for a faulty item, often credit card companies offer a refund service themselves.

We had a problem with our Sun Valley 8 and although, thankfully the supplier offered an exchange, I contacted Outwell who couldn't have been more apologetic. They seem to realise that although they have no legal responsibility towards me (my contract is with the retailer) they undestood that any faulty product reflected badly on them, Mark Jennings at Outwell said "I am sorry to hear that you were one of the unlucky few who had a faulty Sun Valley tent - we have had a problem with some of the zips so a slight modification has been made that we have tested and are confident in the product now. The warranty that you have will not be affected in any way as we will always stand by our products."  He said that if we didn't get any joy from our supplier to contact him again.

These reatilers should know that us campers like to chat/swap stories with others (especially here!!) - it only takes one let down customer to tell a few potential customers who then tell a few more each and so on.  By refusing goodwill responsibility, whether they are legally in the right or not could cost them big time one £300 tent could end up costing thousands of pounds of lost trade, by offering an exchange Khyam could have admitted they were dissappointed their product wasn't they're usual high standard instead they imply that they are used to complaints about shody products, and have no gratitude towards the customer for choosing them over the many other manufacturers around.  The tent is only the first piece of equipment, once dissapointed it is hard to ever trust a brand name again on any item.

Sent fourth email to Khyam, requesting response by return...

(not holding my breath!  )

We might have considered a third attempt purchase with Khyam if they had at least been courteous enough to respond to emails, but as it is we have decided my daughter is going to nip through to Decathlon in Sheffield for us today and pick us up a couple of 3 second tents for overnights, since it looks as if Khyam have no interest in our predicament and we are supposed to be setting off for France tomorrow night.

We wanted a quick pitch tent, not a one-way correspondence course!