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Subject Topic: Whale pump 0814 - running but no water Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by champing27/9/2020 at 10:49pm
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Hi - I have a UP0814 Whale inboard pump. In short, its spluttering water from taps and cannot get constant flow, barely any in fact. Checked for air leak on vacuum side and changed seals on the outside connector, renewed filter that pops into the aquaroll. Worthy of note is that I had left something switched on and flattened the battery so much it would not register anything, the onboard charger puts out 13.6v until I connect it to the battery then it stops and blows the fuse inside the caravan marked Caravan BATT +. The 240v system still provides 12v to lights and makes the pump operate - My question (after all this) is, can the onboard 12v without battery still provide enough oomph for the pump to work at proper speed/pressure? Could that be why its unable to feed the taps properly? Or could it be a duff pump. I should also mention the pump runs constantly as its not reaching enough pressure to switch off

Message posted by Paul_B28/9/2020 at 7:32am
Outfit:  Car & Caravan     Location:  Yorkshire
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The usual problem with the spluttering is either the pipe is curling up in the aquaroll and drawing air,
The O-rings on the pump housing need replacing or a bit of silicon grease or olive oil applied to them, or a faulty non return valve letting water drain back into the aquaroll, this is usually a from limescale or algae build up on the rubber seal, Check by putting a small container under the pick up pipe
Another look out for is the breather valve on the hot water tank not shutting properly, check to see if the breather pipe is clear rather than looking dirty and its not dripping.

Don't know about the electric side

Message posted by champing28/9/2020 at 10:05am
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Quote: Originally posted by Paul_B on 28/9/2020
The usual problem with the spluttering is either the pipe is curling up in the aquaroll and drawing air,
The O-rings on the pump housing need replacing or a bit of silicon grease or olive oil applied to them, or a faulty non return valve letting water drain back into the aquaroll, this is usually a from limescale or algae build up on the rubber seal, Check by putting a small container under the pick up pipe
Another look out for is the breather valve on the hot water tank not shutting properly, check to see if the breather pipe is clear rather than looking dirty and its not dripping.
Don't know about the electric side



Thanks - I've done all except the last item including seals & fitting a new aquaroll to caravan connecting pipe/plug. But what is this breather pipe you mention I wonder - I do have a drain valve next to the heater with a yellow lever on it, if I move that water drains under the caravan and maybe we are talking the same thing but if there is a breather/vent I've not found that - Its a Truma 10ltr water heater, it is gurgling a lot if I try for hot water too. PS - it has onboard tank too and I've had no success there either.

Message posted by marg628/9/2020 at 10:52am
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basically when you turn up on site, what do you do with regard of getting water into your system?

depending on your power supply you may need a fully charged battery, i know ours will run without one which would be fine if we only ever used ehu sites, but you do need it for non ehu or in the event of a power cut

you need to make sure the drain valves are shut on the heater and your on board tank, then turn on the power, go to the furthest away tap usually your shower head, and open the hot tap, keep this running until it runs smoothly, this allows air to escape, the same with the bathroom tap and then kitchen, then repeat doing the cold side. all the time making sure your aquaroll doesnt run out of water or you will be drawing air! only once all the air is out do you turn the water heater on.

Message posted by Pickled Onion28/9/2020 at 11:54am
Outfit:  Bailey Burgundy S7 Honda CR-V IV     Location:  Near Alton Towers N. Staffs.
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Yes, the little yellow lever is the dump valve but also allows water/steam to escape if the heater should stay on permanently. As mentioned, sometimes a bit of detritus gets stuck in thre valve preventing a propper seal, you then pull air in through it. If you have a spare bit of tubing, try and pipe it up as direct as possible to check the function of the pump. You can then add things to the circuit and work backwards until it fails, that will isolate the problem area.

Dave.

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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and you can get rid of him for a whole weekend.

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Message posted by champing28/9/2020 at 1:50pm
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Quote: Originally posted by Pickled Onion on 28/9/2020
Yes, the little yellow lever is the dump valve but also allows water/steam to escape if the heater should stay on permanently. As mentioned, sometimes a bit of detritus gets stuck in thre valve preventing a propper seal, you then pull air in through it. If you have a spare bit of tubing, try and pipe it up as direct as possible to check the function of the pump. You can then add things to the circuit and work backwards until it fails, that will isolate the problem area.

Dave.



Yup sounds like a plan, thanks I'll give that a go - its some way away in storage now so I'll report back at some point on whether that worked - Any other suggestions welcome. I can't find a video or sound file that would enable me to hear a pump running correctly ie at the correct speed. Also, if the diaphragm (spelling?) was damaged/holed what effect would that have and or would pump leak?


Message posted by Paul_B28/9/2020 at 3:31pm
Outfit:  Car & Caravan     Location:  Yorkshire
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The breather pipe is from the hot water tank, it'll be hung down under the van below the heater tank, it should have a red elbow valve near the top

Have you removed the water pick up pipe from the aquaroll to see if water is draining out (with the pump turned off)

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/electric/caravan-gas-water-heater/truma-combi-4-6-l.p.-gas-and-electric-heater-spare-parts/elbow-fitting-for-hot-water-outlet-truma-boilers

Message posted by champing28/9/2020 at 3:48pm
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Quote: Originally posted by marg6 on 28/9/2020
basically when you turn up on site, what do you do with regard of getting water into your system?

depending on your power supply you may need a fully charged battery, i know ours will run without one which would be fine if we only ever used ehu sites, but you do need it for non ehu or in the event of a power cut

you need to make sure the drain valves are shut on the heater and your on board tank, then turn on the power, go to the furthest away tap usually your shower head, and open the hot tap, keep this running until it runs smoothly, this allows air to escape, the same with the bathroom tap and then kitchen, then repeat doing the cold side. all the time making sure your aquaroll doesnt run out of water or you will be drawing air! only once all the air is out do you turn the water heater on.



Thanks - I've brought the battery home and charged it, its recovered ok so can go back on ok rather than a new one.
The bleeding bit was to no effect, spurting and spitting but no flow. I tried it on all taps, pretty much a whole day in various configurations - deffo a problem somewhere - Spoke to Whale Pumps today, tech dept, he believes its the pump head so I'll try the various suggestions here and take a pump to use if they don't work. He said I can change just the valve/pump head but as the whole gubbins is 14 years old I'll have a pump on standby - some have suggested cleaning the head out. I'll report back mid oct when I return to it.
Thanks all for help

Message posted by champing28/9/2020 at 3:50pm
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Quote: Originally posted by Paul_B on 28/9/2020
The breather pipe is from the hot water tank, it'll be hung down under the van below the heater tank, it should have a red elbow valve near the top

Have you removed the water pick up pipe from the aquaroll to see if water is draining out (with the pump turned off)

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/electric/caravan-gas-water-heater/truma-combi-4-6-l.p.-gas-and-electric-heater-spare-parts/elbow-fitting-for-hot-water-outlet-truma-boilers



Thanks - I have not seen that anywhere on system so I'll look a bit harder, the previous owner had opened pretty much everything else to lay it up so its likely if they knew of it.


Message posted by Pickled Onion28/9/2020 at 8:49pm
Outfit:  Bailey Burgundy S7 Honda CR-V IV     Location:  Near Alton Towers N. Staffs.
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Spluttering is air in the system, which is normal when first filling it, however, it should eventually get blown out, but, only if it isn't getting back in again.

Before splashing out (sorry for the pun) on a new head, try connecting it up with some plastic hose, a bucket of water on the input side, and an empty container for the pumped water to output into. There is a very small amount of air to expell is the system and should pump without spluttering in no time, if not, it's the only thing left, the head.

Dave.

-------------
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and you can get rid of him for a whole weekend.

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Message posted by champing28/9/2020 at 9:08pm
Outfit:  Bailey Senator      Location:  Kent
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Quote: Originally posted by Pickled Onion on 28/9/2020
Spluttering is air in the system, which is normal when first filling it, however, it should eventually get blown out, but, only if it isn't getting back in again.

Before splashing out (sorry for the pun) on a new head, try connecting it up with some plastic hose, a bucket of water on the input side, and an empty container for the pumped water to output into. There is a very small amount of air to expell is the system and should pump without spluttering in no time, if not, it's the only thing left, the head.

Dave.



Thanks Dave, an easy test - I like it, just moved to number one thing to do when I get back down there!


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