From a personal perspective...as I have just helped a new member purchase a Cabanon Canvas Frame tent secondhand from Ebay...which she has just done. I notice that the phrase 'waterproofing' has already been used in her latest message, though in fact she has yet to erect the tent for the first time. So I will pre-empt her next post! To the issue...probably one of the most controversial discussions on the site, as I constantly see people mention re-proofing...Fabsil etc... in relation to Canvas tents...In fact Albion Canvas recommend NIKWAX Cottonproof for treating canvas as this maintains breathability whislt increasing water repellency and the product is water based with no fluro Carbons.
Can we try to reach a general consensus.?
Do Canvas tents need waterproofing, re-proofing etc and if so what are the methods of doing this? I specifically mean treating the Canvas, not re-weathering by soaking with water.
Would there be any consequences of this treatment?
Do Canvas tents suffer from seam leakage problems similar to Synthetics and how do you treat these problems?
And finally, here is a reply to one of my posts recently, which I have no idea if it's correct or not? What would be your opinions please...
This was my statement in relation to Canvas tents...
..".Some traditional cotton tents, Cabanons, Vango Force 10 mountain tents, canvas bell tents etc..are not coated at all, purely relying on the cotton threads swelling when wet and therefore becoming water resistant".
and here was a reply...
"As far as I know Cabanon canvas is treated, though I think it maybe the actual thread that is treated prior to it being woven into canvas"?
I look forward to a rumbustious discussion!
Post last edited on 23/06/2008 13:15:16
------------- "All right, let's not panic. I'll make the money by selling one of my livers.I can get by with one." Homer Simpson.
Don't forget to leave a review of all tents you've used, for a chance to win fantastic prizes
Having been in the trade so to speak I can tell you all cotton canvas tents are treated from new most of the good makes will not need reproofing for at least ten years depending on how much camping you do and how much sun your tent is exposed to, UV is the killer not of the canvas so much although it does weaken it slightly over time but of the waterproofing agent.
Most waterproofing agents are Hygroscopic they allow the fibres to absorb moisture but repell large drops, nikowax and thomsons water seal tend to leave more of a waxy residue than fabsil which is why I prefer them for older canvas that needs a little more help.
As regards newer materials you will need someone else for that as I left before most of the new stuff came in most of which I regard as only being fit for play tents
I used Travis Perkins Water Seal on my first Combi Camp as it leaked like a sieve the first time I used it. After I'd done it, it withstood torrential rains and wind with no problems.
My second Combi - previous owner said it was waterproof so I didn't touch it at first, but this weekend was very wet as you know, there was one leaky bit so I've Fabsilled that bit only.
I don't believe modern nylon tents can be waterproofed - the proofing is in the inside plasticky layer, once that has cracked it's done for.
------------- Caz
If you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, just keep going till you go round the bend.
"As regards newer materials you will need someone else for that as I left before most of the new stuff came in most of which I regard as only being fit for play tents"
Hee hee Romany! ...I feel a fight coming on...I'll hold your coat!
------------- "All right, let's not panic. I'll make the money by selling one of my livers.I can get by with one." Homer Simpson.
Don't forget to leave a review of all tents you've used, for a chance to win fantastic prizes
You are not talking about our Mayor are you Shimmy?
I managed to get an average of 3years out of tents made of "the new stuff". Canvas is altogether a superior fabric, quieter in the wind, cooler in the heat more breathable too so there shouldn't be any condensation problems. As has been said, you should only need to treat canvas every 10 years or so. Canvas tents do not generally need seam sealant either.
P
Hi,
I'm all new to this so would appreciate some good advice please.
Basically i've been given a Marechal Biarritz 5 Berth tent from a family member, they've had it since new some 15 years or so ago, they've had it in the loft for years and kindly gave it to me.
We're about to use it next month (May) and was wondering what do we need to do, obviously we need to erect it but would it be an idea to hose it down for leaks etc, if there are leaks i've seen people talk about using either Ronseal Brickseal or Thompson Waterseal on them, i presume our tent is Canvas from the picture but would really appreciate some help on this as i don't want to damage it in anyway.
Also what to use on the seal etc..
Would very much appreciate some advice and help on this.
Thank you.
Yes , hose it down and see if it leaks. another thing to look out for is shrinkage. if its been dry for years , it might have shrunk a bit. typically the bottom of the tent will be too far off the ground and the corners of the roof , if that is canvas too may not fit properly.
if it has shrunk , Giving it a thorough soaking will enable you to stretch it back to size. The wet canvas can be stretched and pulled down , pegged down and if need be wet again and stretch further until it be comfortably pegged down.
Also , if it leaks on the first soaking ,this could just be because its been dry for so long, allow to dry , then soak again , the wetting of the canvas might just swell the threads and make it watertight again.
if it doesnt leak , great , no need to reproof until it is leaking .both the products you mention have been recommended for using on canvas tents by members here, as a cheaper alternative to the tent re proofers such as fabsil.
to waterproof it you need to paint the product on the entire canvas, so start with the roof if its canvas ,(some have pvc type roofs) with the legs only halfway up, so you can reach .I recall someone saying they used a paint roller on a long handle to do theirs.
it needs to be dried on the frame thoroughly , so be prepared to leave the tent up at least 24 hours.
I dont understand what you mean about what to use on the seal though ? What seal ? If you mean the pvc skirt around the bottom , that wont need anything . if you mean seam sealant as on synthetic tents, it doesnt generally apply to canvas tents.
------------- Debbie
Don't forget to leave a review of all tents you've used, for a chance to win fantastic prizes
To Seller. Has it been waterproofed in the past? If so, when? If more than five years ago it will probably need redone. Pitch tent, hose down, check.
Never been proofed? Pitch tent, hose down. If it doesn't leak, you're home and dry. (!) Rejoice!!!
If it does leak, give it a good soak, let it dry well then hose down again. (This is weathering/reweathering.) Does not leak? Happy days. Leave it alone. If it still leaks, then you'll need to proof it. This especially applies if the canvas is quite old and threadbare.
Other points.
Seams are the least likely places a cotton canvas tent will leak, unless they've been sewn with the wrong thread or are badly pulled. Cotton canvas is most likely to leak at a pressure point or if it gets very saturated and starts to droop in at the roof, it will leak from the accumulated puddle. Or if it's been stained with something that breaks the waterproofing, or cleaned with detergent, or soap that hasn't been rinsed out properly. Or is just getting old and thin.
It may only leak in patches. If the canvas is discoloured at these points you'll probably need to use a good cleaner before proofing. Otherwise you can probably get away with a good brush down (when dry) and sponging mud stains off.
Yes, it works by the fibres wetting and swelling up. They don't do this after proofing, relying instead on the silicon coating. If the first mechanism is still working, why go to time and expense to replace it with another that will then need redoing every few years and which takes time, effort and money? Wait untill it needs it.
Finally, modern canvas. The good brands (Cabanon, Ten Cate, Marachel etc) are as good as ever they were. There's a lot of cheaper, unbranded, lesser quality canvas around these days though. If you buy or inherit an older tent of a quality make which is also badged as to canvas, you're probably going to be lucky unless it's been neglected.
As an example of all the above, go look at the Conway TT on my profile pix. 21 years old, made of Cabanon canvas, never been cleaned with anything except brush and water, never been proofed, has never leaked a drop when pitched correctly. Been through the Great Loire Storm and several horrific monsoons...and still the best tent I own, by a long way.
I have read advice on this thread, but am still a little confused as to whether I need to re-waterproof our canvas tents.
I am a girlguide leader and our Unit has 4 canvas Outwell Bear Lake 4's (used by the adult leaders) and 1 Bear Lake 6 (also canvas) used as the 1st Aid tent. (The guides sleep in heavy duty traditional green patrol ridge tents which have been going strong for over 30 years with no problems and never been reproofed, but I'm not worried about them.).
The Outwell Bear Lake tents are only used for one week once a year but are now over ten years old. They didn't leak during this year's camp, but then it didn't rain all week! The canvas has been discoloured by UV rays and is also looking a little tired and patchy in several places, and I spotted a couple of pin-prick holes, so I'm a little concerned.
It would cost quite a lot to re-waterproof all of them, so I don't want to make a mistake, but especially as the bigger one is used as the medical tent, I don't really want to discover half way through summer camp next year that there are leaks. So I'm leaning towards pre-empting problems before they begin, rather than waiting until leaks happen.
Does anyone have advice on what would be the cheapest but still effective product to use when a large quantity is needed?
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Topic: Canvas & Waterproofing..Yes or No?
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...I feel a fight coming on...I'll hold your coat!
