Hi we are looking to buy a property and it has a CL 5 pitch site with it. My question is, is it possible to get this site upgraded so it can take more then 5 pitches? Any advice is welcome.
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Not if it stays as a CL with the CAMC.
If it has decent toilet and shower facilities attached and plenty of room you may be able to switch across to the C&CC who allow 5 vans and up to 10 tents on their CS's.
Failing that it's applying for planning permission and opening as a private independent site.
We were on a CL earlier this year, 5 hardstand pitches plus 4-6 more pitches in the adjacent field, accessed driving through the CL. All EHU, all had a tap, one loo & one shower.
CLs get inspected, I don’t know how often, but I don’t know if additional pitches come under some other scheme (farm diversification? I’m guessing.)
Notwithstanding that, I wouldn’t get too excited about expanding the site until you’ve had a year running the one with the house. You may find you’re rarely fully booked, or that 5 is plenty to deal with, or the income barely covers the cost of refurbishing the toilet & shower (or installing them). I know a house that sold with a CL in the garden, the sale particulars said it brought in £2K pa, that would be about 10 years ago.
There are several site owners on UKCS, hopefully they’ll come on & advise with first hand knowledge.
A CL is classed as an exempted campsite under planning law. From C&CC: “In terms of camping and caravanning in the UK, an exempted organisation is one that has the authority to run or approve sites—without the need for planning permission or a licence. These include organisations like the Scouts and Guides, who will typically use their exemption for annual camps, jamborees, or rallies.18 Mar 2023“.
Don’t know about CMC, but Camping club has a very useful page for their certificated site ( their CL) owners Link here
As mentioned, rarely are the pitches full especially during the cooler months. Stick with the 5 van for at least 1 year to 18 months before making any decisions. Also you would need amenities like toilet, washbasins etc if going larger and these would need to be cleaned on a daily basis.
Keep it as it is and see if the income for a year would warrant you paying out more money to upgrade and apply for a licence. The area you are in may not be attractive to more caravans, depending on attractions for people to visit during their stay, We always look to see what we can do in an area and then look for a suitable site.
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Quite a lot of things to look into in some detail before jumping into expanding!
As said, as a 5 pitch CL, the CAMC takes care of the local authority licensing aspect, they also by default do a lot of your marketing for you, and it can be all of your marketing if you don't wish to have your own web site etc. If you go independent, then marketing would be solely down to you! You cannot expand beyond 5 caravan/camper/MH (NO tents!) pitches and stay in the CAMC scheme! CCC have their similar CS scheme which is 5 caravan/camper/MH pitches and up to 10 additional Tent only pitches, but that is a far smaller network of sites than the CAMC CL's, so you have to balance increase in capacity against demand from a smaller network.
BOTH CL and CS sites are restricted to only members of the respective clubs being able to book them! Well, that's the official line, some sites do seem to abuse that, but I suspect at risk of being removed from the scheme if caught breaking club T&Cs!
A larger site doesn't automatically HAVE to have toilets and showers! I've stayed on 2 full CAMC sites this year without facilities, one a 16 pitch site, one a far more substantial 59 pitch site, they do of course restrict bookings to only self contained units, which cuts your potential customer base! The smaller 16 pitch site was able to get away with just one service point and no drive over disposal for MHs, but the larger site needed several service points and had a drive over disposal point for MHs to cope with demand.
There seems to be a substantial change in camping demand this year! Camp sites have struggled to get bookings, both major clubs have seen a downturn in demand and been offering 'incentives' to book to try and turn that situation around (I stayed on a CAMC site at peak season time and most days it was only around half full! - not a situation found in previous years!), caravan/MH dealers have gone out of business or dropped the sales side, caravan/MH manufacturers have seen a slump in sales. Now, that may be a perfect storm situation, long been forecast that the upsurge in 'camping' caused by Covid international holiday restrictions is now being reversed as people once again go back to Spanish package holidays and villas etc., and it's been a particularly bad year for weather that has put people off making UK bookings.
Personally I'd be holding off for a season or two to see how the trend is going before investing in what may become a dwindling and far more competitive market!
Arguably a reasonably priced CL has a good potential customer base, an awful lot of us prefer CL sites to larger sites, and we've always sought the more economic pitch rates that were traditionally associated with CLs. There has been some jumping on the bandwagon of ridiculous pitch pricing by CLs where the 'Covid Campers' seemed prepared to pay, BUT traditional long standing campers avoided being ripped off and wouldn't use them. That's one for your business plan, if your business will become dependent of old school traditional campers with frugal expectations, can you make it pay! I certainly wouldn't be expecting the high pitch pricing to be viable into the future if the 'Covid Campers' are giving up UK camping and returning to their usual foreign holidays in the sun!
From a CL fan, if it aint broke, don't fix it! - but pitch prices need to be below circa £25/night for many of us to consider it NOT broken!
We are also CL fans. Some are going over to metered electricity which may be worth considering. Typically 10 units are included in the daily price, and each pitch has a meter. Where are you buying? We won't pay more than £25 per night all in, and something like 22 plus any amount of electricity over the 10 units.
We like the smaller sites, with one notable exception, but won't consider a site without toilets/showers and EHU. We don't need anything else but for us they are essential. The one exception to smaller sites is Sandringham C&CC site which is huge, but the part of the site we usually go for allows us to pitch up however we like and whatever way round we like. We don't like regimented all-in-neat-rows type sites, which is one reason we usually avoid hardstandings when we can. Our maximum is also £25 a night all-in, but they are getting harder to find. Even Sandringham was £27 when we went this year. We go there for a specific reason though, at the same time each year, but if next year they have put their prices up again we may look a little further afield.
I can't help thinking that some sites may have caught a cold this year with their prices, especially if they are half-empty as I keep hearing. The Covid bubble has burst, and the law of diminishing returns may have kicked in. Increased prices but fewer customers = lower income!
A CL we know has 10 pitches but he only ever has 5 vans, 5 are on a banking sheltering behind some trees and 5 are lower down the field, the lower ones get more sun but suffer damp areas in winter.
They got a grant to set trees and also one when they had disabled toilets and showers
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Quote: Originally posted by Apr1980 on 23/11/2024
Hi we are looking to buy a property and it has a CL 5 pitch site with it. My question is, is it possible to get this site upgraded so it can take more then 5 pitches? Any advice is welcome.
You would need planning permission for a larger site . So talk to local Panning Officer before you buy and get an idea whether you would be likely to get that planning permission
You can have more than five pitches, for example five hardstanding and five grass but only 5 can be occupied at the same time. If you join the C&CC they will allow 5 caravan/motorhome pitches and up the five tents. If you have enough room I think you can have a rally field but there are restrictions on how often the rally field can be used. Someone said try it out as a 5 van site to see how you get one which is a good idea. A year in use will give you a sense of how much time it takes up and also whether you could cope with more pitches. Chatting to your local planning department will give you an idea of how the Council policy works.
Quote: Originally posted by David Klyne on 27/11/2024
You can have more than five pitches, for example five hardstanding and five grass but only 5 can be occupied at the same time. If you join the C&CC they will allow 5 caravan/motorhome pitches and up the five tents. If you have enough room I think you can have a rally field but there are restrictions on how often the rally field can be used. Someone said try it out as a 5 van site to see how you get one which is a good idea. A year in use will give you a sense of how much time it takes up and also whether you could cope with more pitches. Chatting to your local planning department will give you an idea of how the Council policy works.
David
Good advice, but to be honest I think at least 18 months would allow them to get a better picture? If for example the sale goes through in the winter months when it is quiet then end of 12 months it is winter again, but with only one summer season. Hopefully you can understand my reasoning.
There are lots of areas where the holiday trade is very seasonal - and in those places a campsite with the right licence can easily get ten outfits wanting to book in the summer but none in the winter..Maybe the OP is looking to start a small business in an area like that and wants to go down that road with a site for ten. That’s his decision.
Quote: Originally posted by Netherton on 28/11/2024
There are lots of areas where the holiday trade is very seasonal - and in those places a campsite with the right licence can easily get ten outfits wanting to book in the summer but none in the winter..Maybe the OP is looking to start a small business in an area like that and wants to go down that road with a site for ten. That’s his decision.
From the tone of the OP, it would appear they don't know the first thing about camp sites - on that basis, they have a LOT of research to do, and a business plan of some complexity to formulate!
As they've yet to comment, we've no idea if taking advice or not!
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Topic: CL upgrade to more pitches
via mobile 23/11/2024 at 8:23pm
