Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 14/7/2015
I wonder why you French friend thinks that UK campsites will not be VAT registered?
The amount this year is a turnover of £79,000, which over (say) a 36 week year is only £2195 a week, which on a 20 pitch site is £110 a week, or £15 a day.
I suspect your friend might be wrong!
He isnt French and neither did he say all sites he said many and I assume he refers to the smaller sites that would be hard pressed to get 36 weeks in more like 25 and say 20 30 pitches. He is talking about the smaller sites which Id agree far outnumber the bigger ones and if you count the number of sites I am sure if you add all the CLs in some of which only have 5 pitches there will probably out number the big sites easily. Its not a fact he quoted and I re quote he said many thats not even most just many as in too many to count Just as anyone might say there are many un insured motorist or many speeding drivers on the M1 Not all, not most, just many. Heck I even have 3 sites by me that dont even have planning permission they use the I think 20 weekends a year rule and rent some 20 30 40 pitches or even may rent the land non vat able.
------------- Mark
Uttoxeter (Race days)
Le Serignan Plage (clothed one) August and Scheveningen on way back
Don't forget to leave a review of the campsites you have visited this year or last!
Quote: Originally posted by themarstonscooper on 14/7/2015
Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 14/7/2015I wonder why you French friend thinks that UK campsites will not be VAT registered?
The amount this year is a turnover of £79,000, which over (say) a 36 week year is only £2195 a week, which on a 20 pitch site is £110 a week, or £15 a day.
I suspect your friend might be wrong!
He isnt French and neither did he say all sites he said many and I assume he refers to the smaller sites that would be hard pressed to get 36 weeks in more like 25 and say 20 30 pitches. He is talking about the smaller sites which Id agree far outnumber the bigger ones and if you count the number of sites I am sure if you add all the CLs in some of which only have 5 pitches there will probably out number the big sites easily. Its not a fact he quoted and I re quote he said many thats not even most just many as in too many to count Just as anyone might say there are many un insured motorist or many speeding drivers on the M1 Not all, not most, just many. Heck I even have 3 sites by me that dont even have planning permission they use the I think 20 weekends a year rule and rent some 20 30 40 pitches or even may rent the land non vat able.
VAT was simply an example of something I knew for a fact was less in france than in the UK, this is not a debate about VAT....
Without your friend disclosing figures on his overheads we actually have no facts to go on... could he give for example the cost of his acsi membership and advertising rates, or maybe his pitch values to expenses ratio.. I can give mine ; for market value the general rule for a site of our size is approx £ 1000 - £1500 per pitch turn over across a 8month season with expenses running at between 35% and 45%. To 'justify' this I'll give our credentials this site 40 pitches - west wales coast (12yrs ownership) previous site 60 pitvhes with 30 statics - pitch values are more for statics (18mths ownership) -East Coast Scotland both sites have run at similar ratios - no bars, shops or swimming pools on either both fully licensed with planning but this one weve done from scratch hence vat registration. ...
------------- If you can't beat em, join em, so we did! And then we sold it for a holiday let & Glamping pod instead 😁
Quote: Originally posted by themarstonscooper on 14/7/2015
He isnt French and neither did he say all sites he said many and I assume he refers to the smaller sites that would be hard pressed to get 36 weeks in more like 25 and say 20 30 pitches. He is talking about the smaller sites which Id agree far outnumber the bigger ones and if you count the number of sites I am sure if you add all the CLs in some of which only have 5 pitches there will probably out number the big sites easily. Its not a fact he quoted and I re quote he said many thats not even most just many as in too many to count Just as anyone might say there are many un insured motorist or many speeding drivers on the M1 Not all, not most, just many. Heck I even have 3 sites by me that dont even have planning permission they use the I think 20 weekends a year rule and rent some 20 30 40 pitches or even may rent the land non vat able.
French as in he lives in France!!
You said "sites", not CL's! There is a big difference.
I suggest you do some maths as even if a site is only open 26 weeks reaching the VAT threshold would be remarkably easy!!
There was low and high. Now mid season. Low was right through winter. Now part of low season has become high. High was right through the hols, now we have peak, which was the high, now it includes the bank hols and weekends, therefore enabling sites to ask for premium tariffs??????
Sites have all these extra bandings, I have seen sites which I would like to visit, not had time to in the past, now I do, what can I say, they have become too expensive. They are not even all singing and dancing sites either.
If sites are very expensive, then have to pay for showers on top. A large family this is even more expensive.
I camp solo now, much easier. Per person, nuot so good if a family. However I've seen some fantastic deals for families on some sites, which makes it really cheap. It's a case of looking.
------------- New Year: Hesketh Bank
Feb/March: Red Squirrel
March: lakes
June: Morecambe
Aug: Lake District(not camping camping)
October: Red Squirrel
Don't forget to leave a review of the campsites you have visited this year or last!
This debate could run and run, however the small margins being discussed do not in my opinion, explain why a French commercial site with pool, restaurant, gym, free wifi etc and with excellent facilities can charge less than a third of the cost of a not for profit site in the UK. (And give a free night if you stay for 7. )
A few debatable percentage points here and there, although they add up, don't treble the price.
Aldi and Lidl are cheap but their prices are not a third of Waitrose, Sainsbury etc.
Quote: Originally posted by oxter on 15/7/2015
This debate could run and run, however the small margins being discussed do not in my opinion, explain why a French commercial site with pool, restaurant, gym, free wifi etc and with excellent facilities can charge less than a third of the cost of a not for profit site in the UK. (And give a free night if you stay for 7. )
A few debatable percentage points here and there, although they add up, don't treble the price.
Aldi and Lidl are cheap but their prices are not a third of Waitrose, Sainsbury etc.
Possibly because some ccc sites are franchised private sites costing £40,000p/a prior to anything else???
To answer your questions fully you would need actually figures from french site owners as to what there expenses are vs pitch values what schemes grants etc are available in both countries, what occupancy rates are expected etc etc so u need a site owner prepared to disclose.... my guess is that will never happen as maybe like uk sites their profit margins are there business.
still there's plenty of choice in the uk to suit all budgets, and demand for sites that cn provide a nice site for a reasonable price.
happy camping one and all
------------- If you can't beat em, join em, so we did! And then we sold it for a holiday let & Glamping pod instead 😁
No its a good debate
Liam when I said sites I was referring to all sites anywhere a caravan owner can pitch up that's includes CLs as well as non planning permission sites I did not differentiate at all as it was a general comment. If you chat to many a smaller site owner they re not full all week for every 26 weeks they are open. Im not sure why you would even think they were. So 79000 divided by 182 days is 434 a day so a site with 20 pitches charging 22 a day and fully occupied 7 days a week would just about make it. Neither is he French just cause he lives in France. Im assuming by yur rule then that everyne living in England is English. Somehow I dont think that will work. Thats a whole other topic.
Yes he is loathed to disclose his accounts but has said he will get some costings of waste and staff and the UK equivalent I had asked him to join but doesn't want to upset his site. I can understand.
I also agree some of the sites have a whopping overhead in this country before they even open the door I suspect there may be some element of that going on here as a site rental as a whole may be in place and lets face it land is more expensive generally here.
Whilst witting I have had an email he will disclose his ACSI cost and says will email me them.
We are sadly never going to change the elemnet of some characters who charge what they can get and long live the sites who look after folk for a reasonable return.
We sadly dont earn the tag rip off Britain for nothing not just camping. I should perhaps say this may likely be my last year camping in France as well. My wife's Visa (they want her profession not mine) is well underway for the land of Quantas and Kanga's beckons.
------------- Mark
Uttoxeter (Race days)
Le Serignan Plage (clothed one) August and Scheveningen on way back
Not long ago I tried to get a thread going advising people where to find cheaper campsites but it didn't seem to take off...must be lots of millionaires around.
A day of all things motorhome and campervan. The show is held both in the main indoor arena and across the grounds. Catering, hot drinks and food options are available. Easy access to the site and free parking included. Win one of five pairs of day tickets
Topic: Cost of camping on campsite
