I apologise for another "bed" type thread but i would like to know specifically about how best to set up an air bed to keep warm and comfortable.
I recently purchased a Aerobad Active Double, ive discarded sleeping bags and want to use a double duvet and will probably go for a 13.5tog. My question on the duvet is ...
Does a microfibre duvet pack down smaller than a hollow fibre duvet.??
As with regards keeping warm whilst on an air bed .... I have read pages of information with regards this, with countless opinions. I have ruled out SIMS for the time being.
Most opinions seem to suggest that all the insulation should be between the person and the bed and not to worry about insulating under the bed. Does anyone disagree with this??
How is the best way to insulate.
Closed cell foam sleep mats held in place with a fitted sheet. My concern with this is that cell mats are quite bulky for packing (although very light) and 2 wont cover a double so assume will need 3 of them??
4tog lightweight duvet on top of the air bed (person sleeps on the duvet). I like this idea as can swap the 13.5tog duvet with the 4.5tog duvet on the warmer nights, but does the 4.5tog duvet insulate enough from the airbed??.
Does anyone else sleep on a lightweight duvet that can comment??.
Do you place the bottom duvet on top of a fitted sheet or directly onto the airbed??
Does the bottom duvet need fixing to the bed??
.... or if anyone has alternative method i would be very interested to hear it please.
I spend too long setting up and striking as it is, so try to keep it simple. The whole bedroom pod has a well fitting carpet, which stays in situ. An opened-out fleece sleeping bag liner goes over the top of the airbed; the flock surface means it stays put. Finally, a fat (Outwell Constellation double) sleeping bag goes on top of that. If it gets cold, an oil filled radiator warms up the whole pod. The carpet seems to protect against punctures too.
If we were to move on to duvets, I'd probably bung a second fleece layer down for insulation and to avoid sweatiness, plus a fitted sheet for comfort.
You must insulate under the air bed we use camping mats, good quality ones, then your bed, good quality bedding, we go to Dunelm fitted sheets, Coleman sleeping bags, with an extra quilt if it's cold, But the best advice is two hot water bottles, not expensive easy to use and stay hot for hours.
There is a lot of misinformation on this subject, mostly due to misunderstanding as to what insulation actually is and what is needed.
The reason people suggest insulating at floor level is to stop cold ground from making the airbed cold. However this assumes that the ground is cold! In summer when most people camp it isnt always cold. Even if it is a little colder than ambient it isnt always very cold. Add the fact that usually you'll have a tent footprint followed by a tent groundsheet followed by a bedroom inner and you can see that it just isnt always necessary. However, if the ground is very cold then a layer of insulation under the airbed might help (might!)
The reason people suggest insulating on top of the bed is to stop cold air in the mattress from making you cold. Again, they assume the air will be cold. If you set your tent up on a red hot day, unpack your gear into the tent, sort out the electrics and then inflate your airbed it could actually be that the ambient air you blow into it is very warm, in which case there seems little point in insulating against that. However, if the air temperature drops quite low for an extended period of time then the air in the airbed might also drop (bear in mind it will always be around ambient temperature though. When you add your 'insulation' layer to the top of the bed that will also become ambient temperature on the top for the simple reason that everything in your tent, unless actually cooled or heated will be at ambient temperature.
So really, it isnt a big deal. But - if you are worried, then give it a go and see what you think. I've camped with and without, and to be honest noticed no difference at all. Last year I took a foil backed mat with me and put it under my airbed. I also tried my daughter's airbed and there was no difference. That was early september and it was very warm during the day, cool at night but we also had a heater.
A perhaps more sensible approach is to look at comfort. Your suggestion of having 2 duvets, one under and one over sounds a great idea as well as being sensible and adaptable.
This year I'm in full glamping style and have bought some EVA foam flooring for the bedroom pods as well as additional carpets. So thats a footprint then a groundsheet then a bedroom floor then a 1cm foam floor then a carpet then the airbed. But - it's more for underfoot comfort than anything else.
For packing your duvets I'd suggest getting a couple of larger compression sacks from amazon, or from a camping store. I bought some branded ones and then some cheapie amazon ones which came from china - they were identical!
I can roll a king size 12 tog duvet and get it into a compression sack, then compress it down until it is no bigger than a sleeping bag. Another compression sack for fleecy mattress topper + Pillows + bedding.
If you are on a budget then dont bother with insulation under the airbed. Instead, get some free cardboard boxes from a supermarket and fold them flat. Don't use them the first night - give it a go without first. If you feel the air from the airbed was too cold then use them the second night and see what you think. Cardboard is an excellent insulator - that's why homeless people use it.
Whilst talking about airbeds, it's worth also understanding what happens to the air inside, and why many people seem to have problems with them. If you have a new airbed and inflate it, after a few hours or a day or so it will appear to have lost air. It hasn't, it is just filling out the creases and pockets of air. If the weather is hot then the air will expand. This can lead to a stretching of the material (and to explosion or seam tears sometimes). When the weather cools down at night then the air contracts and the airbed appears to have lost air. So you put more in, then the next day the same thing happens. In a polyester tent in high summer temperatures can reach over 40 degrees.
The correct procedure is that when you get up in the morning yo should let a it of air out of the bed. Before yo go to bed put it back in again. This ensures that the expansion doesnt damage the airbed
With my arts grad brain I imagine it this way: the purpose of the insulation, (in my case SIM and sleeping bag, with extra fleece blanket if cold) is to sandwich in the heat generated by me. Me being warmer than nighttime ambient temperature in most U.K settings.
Without insulation would I not be raising the temperature of the tent and air bed if I had one, rather than keeping myself warm?
Quote: Originally posted by DeborahTurner on 14/5/2017
Very interesting, highslayer.
With my arts grad brain I imagine it this way: the purpose of the insulation, (in my case SIM and sleeping bag, with extra fleece blanket if cold) is to sandwich in the heat generated by me. Me being warmer than nighttime ambient temperature in most U.K settings.
Without insulation would I not be raising the temperature of the tent and air bed if I had one, rather than keeping myself warm?
Absolutely - but to a very small degree. My comments were in respect of most peoples comments which refer to ground and then the air in the airbed.
But again you need to think logically. If you allow your body heat to transmit into the mattress (which it will in any case) the worst that can happen is that the mattress will reach body temperature - in other words it will feel completely neutral. In practice though dont forget that you still have the ground, the air around you and all of the other air hitting the air mattress everywhere you are not.
You also miss my point about summer temperatures which was my reference for my whole post. Do you struggle to keep warm in the middle of summer when the night time temperatures can be 15+ degrees? Most people end up too hot and throwing duvets off. The OP wrote that she plans to take both a 4.5 and a heavier tog duvet with her and have one of them as a bed topper and one as a duvet. That's a really good idea.
I've never been cold in my bed on a campsite, even when it is cold once I get up. It's always toasty warm with just body heat - the same as it is at home.
Also bear in mind that if you use a physical barrier insulation such a foil then it is not breathable, nor it it comfortable. It is ok on the floor but not on your bed. You'd sweat and drip and be soaking. If you use a breathable material then it is less insulating. Most insulation isnt total, it is simply a way to slow down a change in temperature. Most insulation doesnt care wither it is hot or cold either, it will just slow down the transfer. That means it can work against you.
As I said, the best way is to try without first, find out what really needs doing and then work from there. Or, spend the money, buy everything - you know you'll be happy. This is what most people do then swear it works because they have no problems. But most people without have no problems either.
The exceptions of course being winter camping or camping in very moist conditions or under wide fluctuations of temperature. Even then though, my choices would be to fight condensation and if you do that as well as you can you'll probably find that the natural result will be that you're still comfortable.
As a comparison - I get too hot too quickly. I prefer things cooler. My ex-wife freezes constantly (lack of a heart to pump blood I've always believed!). Last year we went away together (hence me buying the BIG tent with bedrooms at opposite ends!). We took standard double airbeds (eurohike). Come night time she was very chilly whereas I wasn't. She took a duvet and I took 2 sleeping bags which zip together. We were both perfectly warm overnight. If anything, I was a little too warm and ended up opening the top bag and leaving it loose.
No real insulation there - just natural. It also was very warm but with torrential rain on several days. No dampness in the tent, no condensation
The only way people will correctly understand how insulation affect them personally is to try without and then try with. That way they can find out exactly what works for them, in their tent, with their layout and their equipment.
We haven't used an airbed for years as we switched to a caravan in 2011 but last year my parents were using our caravan and we had to tow it and set it up for them. As it was quite a drive from home, we decided to stay overnight for the first night with them and slept on our old airbed in the awning. When we camped in the past, we never worried about insulation as it was usually in France and plenty warm. However, this was early June in the Cotswolds so we decided to put a thin memory foam topper on the airbed covered by a fitted sheet and then a heavy duvet on top of us. This worked great for warmth but the next day, when we were packing up to go, we found a lot of condensation between the airbed and the memory foam topper. This wasn't a problem for one night but if it had been for a longer period of time, I could imagine the topper would get quite damp!
I stopped using airbeds some time ago because even in mid-summer it can get pretty cold at night. There are very few really warm nights.
I believe pumping it up in the heat of the day causes more problems in that the warmer the air is when inflated, the more the airbed will deflate once the temperature drops at night. This can cause the valves to leak because most depend on the pressure inside to seal the valve flap.
When I was using airbeds I placed a foam mat underneath as well as the aforementioned groundsheets and tent carpet. I also wrapped the airbed in a fleece blanket. That helped but there were still nights when I was cold.
There are other issues that can make it cold at night. One is that a sleeping bag (or duvet) keeps you warm by trapping your body heat. It can also breath to allow moisture out. The longer you are in there the more heat is trapped and the warmer you become. However, if you sleep in thick clothing (because you feel cold initially) your body heat cannot get out and into the sleeping bag. You sweat, and moisture/condensation builds up inside your clothing making you feel cold and damp.
Many people feel the need to tuck their heads inside the sleeping bag to keep their ears warm...thus filling the sleeping bag with moist air which will then make them feel cold and damp.
So... sleep naked if possible or with very thin night clothing and don't breath into your sleeping bag. Wear a beanie hat over your ears if you must.
Finally...get a camp bed with a SIM on top plus a fleece blanket and you will be as warm as toast...especially so if you use an electric heater...and no hassle having to pump up airbeds after spending two hours erecting the tent or disturbing the neighbours at night with having to re-inflate a sagging airbed
There are air bed and there are air beds. A backpacking blow up mat has down or artificial fibres in it that insulates yet has the comfort of a lilo type airbed.
I slept on my air bed for the first time. It wasn’t a cold night but I can tell you the air beneath from the ground was freezing and I couldn’t sleep. I think insulation below and on the mattress would really help and I’ll be trying it next time.
I used an electric under blanket, placed on top of a fleece on top of the air bed, then covered with a top sheet.
I also had a thin foam matt underneath the air bed.
It was toasty, however too much faff.
And when the double air bed developed a leak mid trip in December 2011, I decided air beds were not reliable and too big a risk. On this particular trip, I was close to home and was able to go back to get the single air bed out to continue with the trip.
Hence I converted to SIM on top of a camp bed, and would not recommend air beds since then.
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Just to complicate matters, there is also a problem with condensing sweat under certain conditions, for example when night temperatures are high. Using a wool blanket immediately under the sleeping bag is useful, as wool is highly absorbent. Even in more moderate climes, a wool topper can moderate the coldness of the air in the air bed. Our experience however, was that the camp bed / SIM combination was probably the best.
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Topic: Insulating an air bed options/opinions?
via mobile 26/5/2020 at 11:08pm
