Hi forum, my first post here so please excuse if what I'm asking is a silly question.
Wife & I have been camping for a few years, mainly weekend events & shows rather than dedicated camp sites.
Recently a few have stopped providing mains electric (Not sure why - but to be honest, the generators were noisy overnight at a few events)
So now I'm looking to buy an inverter genny, mainly to run small travel fridge, small kettle & phone charging etc.
I don't want to run it overnight, and was wondering if it's a "done thing" to run genny for some hours in daytime to charge a battery, and use the battery full time to run what I need? The kettle would only be during daylight, it's just 12v items I'm really enquiring about.
You need to enquire with each independent campsite because some campsites won't allow generators to be used on site at all, not unless it's a rally field where quite often no electric hooks have been installed. Even then there are strict rules regarding the times when a generator can be used.
However, the type of inverter generator you require to run a fridge and electric kettle etc. a wise choice would be the Honda EU22i which are quiet compared to other makes of generator.
The link below is for illustration purposes only.
Where to start? Firstly generators are sometimes (but not always, and sometimes with 'rules'!) acceptable at rally events on either rally fields or 'pop-up' sites where generally your activity group has exclusive use, I've used them under those circumstances. Regular campsites will either have an outright ban in T and Cs or you may find yourself unpopular with site and neighbours if running one even for short periods, and complaints/comments made, basically they are generally not popular as noisy and smelly!
Then there is your 'small travel fridge'! Very much depends on what type it is whether you will get away with running it off a battery that is occasionally 'topped up' by the genny. Most Absorption and Peltier/Thermoelectric fridges draw far too much current to run off a typical leisure battery for more than an hour or so, and will actually risk killing it permanently (by over discharging it) in a few hours if they don't have battery protection circuits inbuilt. If they do have battery protection circuits inbuilt, they will often not start up on a solo battery, as the initial load drags the battery voltage down below the trip out voltage, they often will only function on a battery on charge to get the voltage high enough. Compressor fridges can be much kinder to batteries and will often run for days off a battery even without a re-charge. Don't know what you've got so can't advise further.
So called 'Silent' generators are anything but, they are markedly better than 'ordinary' ones in most respects, but still totally audible at normal pitch spacing for probably your neighbours up to 3 pitches away on a quiet site! Then there are the exhaust fumes, which can be quite noticeable, especially 2-stroke and diesel! - not having tall exhaust stacks like big commercial generators, the fumes hug the ground at people height!
There is or course the fuel to consider, most small portable gennys will consume 4 or 5 litres in a few hours, so possibly a day's use, therefore you either have to bring sufficient quantity with you for your stay, or have a fuel station reasonably close by to go get refills!
Not saying don't do it, but you need to check your fridge, and evaluate your use situation before buying.
For summertime use (not terribly effective in dull winter light!) a Solar Panel may be a more effective solution, it'll charge battery for up to 8 hours a day, it's far more eco/neighbour friendly and costs less than a quality generator and not so much more than a budget generator! In a no EHU situation, I'd use a gas kettle (one of those compact 'suitcase' single burner stoves is ideal), rather than electric, as powering an electric kettle from a genny or inverter involves some high power equipment (up to 3kW for an ordinary domestic kettle, 1kW or so for a camping kettle) that is complete overkill for ALL other purposes you have for it.
Just done a bit of an online search, and this says a 100ah battery should run a 60w fridge like mine for 5.5+ days? So I may not need a genny after all.
Quote: Originally posted by mikrt on 02/8/2022
Just done a bit of an online search, and this says a 100ah battery should run a 60w fridge like mine for 5.5+ days? So I may not need a genny after all.
Absolutely no chance whatsoever. In practice you'll get a couple of days, assuming you have a compressor fridge, if you're lucky . The calculations on that page are flawed, starting with the fact a 100ah battery (unless it's lithium) will not give you 100ah, more like 50%. If you run it lower than that often, you will trash the battery in no time. Also, forget about using the kettle, and stick to gas boiling!
In my opinion, forget the noisy, heavy generator and invest in a solar panel to charge a decent AGM battery, and you should be okay for running the fridge, LED lights, and charging phone batteries etc
Quote: Originally posted by mikrt on 02/8/2022
Thanks at Monty15.
Just done a bit of an online search, and this says a 100ah battery should run a 60w fridge like mine for 5.5+ days? So I may not need a genny after all.
Have I misunderstood your statement that it will only run for an hour or so, or have I misunderstood the link?
Be MUCH easier to advise you if we knew for sure what fridge you had!
In general principals, an ABSORPTION or PELTIER/THERMOELECTRIC fridge will only run for about an hour or so because they draw so much current, and do so constantly without ever tripping in and out on a thermostat. They quickly drag the battery voltage down to a level that is damaging to the battery if that level of discharge continues, so their duration of use on a battery should only be considered to be an hour or so. A COMPRESSOR type fridge has a thermostat and the compressor does not normally run continuously, so whilst it may have the same power rating as other types of fridge, it's drawing a MUCH lower AVERAGE over time current draw, so therefore can effectively run for much longer on the same battery.
Making the assumption that you have a compressor fridge (as the type cited in the link you posted is), then the link figures are too simplistic and Webmaster is spot on, you can only discharge a ordinary (lead acid) leisure battery to about half it's rated capacity before the voltage drops to damaging levels, but the principle that the fridge (compressor) is not running constantly is correct.
Now life gets complicated and NO ONE can tell you how long a Compressor fridge will run for on say a 100Ah Battery, because a host of unknown (to us) variables come into play. Ambient temperature and the temperature set on the thermostat affects how often the fridge compressor will run, worst case it runs near continuously, best case only kicks in briefly once or twice an hour. How often you open the fridge has an impact. If you place anything warmer than the set temperature (add fresh contents say) will impact on it. From empirical experience, in a normal UK climate (the recent heat wave would have had serious impact!), a compressor fridge can run 2-3 days off of a healthy 100Ah battery, maybe an extra day if opened infrequently and NO warm items added to it. People successfully use a leisure battery and solar panel to run compressor fridges for many days even weeks at a time, but it's all down to the variables being favourable.
Thank you all for your helpful answers, and I've just discovered 3 way (12v/240v/gas) fridges which I'm investigating. Any experience or information on those please?
A lot to think about.
I have a few weeks before our next trip without power supply to decide.
I've got two 3-way (12v/240v/Gas) fridges, one fitted in caravan (typical standard caravan fridge), and a venerable old Electrolux (now branded Dometic) portable camping one that must be 20-25 years old. Both work well, camping one has just done 5 days in France running on gas in near 40C ambient temps (but placed in shade), and excelled itself by only needing to be on minimum setting, otherwise it was a freezer! TBF, mine is the higher spec RC1600 model.
3 way fridges are of the absorption type I mentioned before. 12v operation is ONLY suitable from a vehicle with engine running as it constantly draws around 6.25 Amps, which is far too high for a stand alone leisure battery for more than an hour or so, AND there is no built in battery protection circuit, so it will run the battery down until irretrievably dead! On 12v there is no thermostat so it constantly runs flat out, it can easily freeze the contents in time if ambient temp low enough! But 12v is great for transporting in the car where you can keep it running to stay chilled ready for on site. 240v only draws about 0.3 Amps so is fine for any EHU, and on 240v operation there is a thermostat to control temperature. On Gas (Butane or Propane, there is also a model that takes disposable cartridges), it only has Off/Low/High setting and no thermostat, as the gas power rating is slightly higher than either electric rating it chills more (ie. it will freeze in low ambient temps easier! - I've had frozen bananas, tomatoes, orange juice, eggs etc. in the morning after a cool night!). A fridge thermometer and tweaking control to low for overnight is wise. The gas consumption rate is quite economical, 1Kg of gas should power it for around 4 or 5 days, more if on low setting.
Downsides, not many, and all easily overcome if you make allowances. Absorption fridges are quite slow to chill down to temp, 5 or 6 hours minimum, they need to be near perfectly level to operate, a 3 or 4 degree tilt can compromise their performance, 6 or 7 degrees and it may not even work at all! Slightly limited ambient temp range, OK up to around 40/42C which covers northern Europe, might struggle a bit in southern Europe in high summer. On gas operation, MUST only be used in a well ventilated space like a tent porch, NOT in main body of tent, due to risk of Carbon Monoxide (CO) poisoning, same as any other open flame equipment. They are NOT weatherproof, so need shelter from the elements. There is a naked flame when on gas just inside the lower rear casing (which does get quite warm), so really needs standing on a fire/temp resistant surface (not grass or tent groundsheet), or on a stand, also the flue (at top rear of casing) emits quite hot exhaust so needs to be clear of tent walls of other flammable/temp sensitive surfaces.
There are those that poo-poo them as old fashioned, and say ONLY consider a 12v/240v compressor fridge (of which I've also got one, and it's great if you've got an electric source), BUT the 3 way power option is still unbeatable in versatility, and I still use both of my 3-way fridges on gas if no EHU is available. Another upside is they are silent in operation, so no compressors clunking on and off, or cooling fans whirring away! With knowledge of their constraints, their needs etc. they're great, I've used mine extensively and really wouldn't be without them for those times electric power is not an option. But will concede, if electric power available the compressor fridge edges ahead on a few points. Best way to use them is chill down at home on 240v, pack with necessary items, run on 12v in car for journey, then 240v or Gas when on camping pitch.
A high performance cool box * keeps ice frozen for up to 5 days with careful management. Throw in another bag from the supermarket if it starts getting warmer. Solar charger for phone. 1 ring stove for kettle.
That’s just what we do when no EHU.
We have a Yeti and can’t fault it works just fine. Lasts for days when used right.
One thing I’d say is what ever brand you have prep it well days before it really makes things much easier all round.
Do cool it beforehand (empty plastic bottles of frozen water are fine) , do put stuff in it ready frozen or cold, don't keep opening the lid unnecessarily or leave it open for long periods.
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Topic: Generator/Battery advice please
via mobile 02/8/2022 at 10:38am
