I thought folk might be interested in a recent problem I had with my caravan's ATC/Brakes.
I had Alko ATC retrofitted to my Bailey Senator Arizona (2006) last summer by CMI, Alko's appointed agent. I had no problems with the system until recently. I have recently re-paved and widened the sloping, drive at our home and reversed the ‘van on for the first time mid-March. On Saturday 4 April I tried to tow the ‘van out with our Kia Sorento prior to setting off on our Easter Break. I was very surprised to find the 'van's brakes seized on. Despite rolling the 'van back and tapping the drums with a hammer the wheels remained firmly locked - skid marks on the new drive. I was particularly surprised as I had had new drums, shoes, etc, fitted last August after “burning them out” – handbrake came on whilst towing??
Tradetech, a mobile service agent, came out on the following Monday. Jacking up the 'van he found that the "actuation rod" on the ATC had "pulled out" locking the brakes. I was surprised to hear this as the ATC warning light was showing "green", ie, no fault. He felt that that the way the ATC had been connected meant that when the brakes were fully applied, in reverse, the ATC rod was too short. He, also, found that the brakes were unequally adjusted. He reconnected and adjusted the rod and the brakes and they then operated correctly.
Concerned that this problem might recur I phoned Alko the next day before setting off on holiday. The man I spoke to was very helpful and even phoned Tradetech to discuss his adjustments. The Alko man then phoned me back to reassure me that he was satisfied that Tradetech had dealt with the problem. The Alko man did say that if I did ever have a problem it is possible to disconnect the ATC so that the 'van could still be towed. However, I am a big bloke and I know that I would not find it easy to get under the 'van to do this.
I subsequently spoke with an engineer at CMI, fitters of my ATC. He said that it sounded as though the guy who fitted my the new brake shoes and drums to the 'van last August did not adjust the brakes correctly. He assured me that if, Tradetech has tightened up the locking nut on the brakes sufficiently there was no way that the ATC rod could "pull out" again. He pointed out that as the ATC system had operated properly on our 5 week/2K Mile trip around the Continent last summer indicated that the ATC and brakes were correctly set up at that time and that the problem only happened after the brakes had been repaired.
In mitigation of the guy who worked on the brakes I wonder how much Alko has made clear the brake adjustment necessary when ATC is fitted. The guy who repaired the brakes last August was very experienced and highly recommended.
Anyway the good news seems to be that the ATC worked correctly on our 200 mile Easter holiday journey. The bad news is no one accepted responsibility for the problem despite my having paid for £450 for brake repairs, £500 for the ATC and the cost of Tradetech rectifying the problem.
I would, however, say that I am still glad that I had ATC fitted as I think it provides a very useful operation which increases towing safety considerably.
I realise this post is not exactly new, but I thought it worth posting anyway.
I bought a brand new Swift Challenger 580 about 5 weeks ago. ALKO fitted ATC at the dealership as I needed the caravan before they could do it in factory. Regrettably, my new Ford Kuga did not have power on pin 9, so the ATC has never been active yet.
Last weekend, on leaving a campsite pitch, which I had reversed onto, the caravan seemed heavier to tow. I originally thought I had a problem with the car. After a couple of miles it got worse so I stopped to find both caravan brake drums very hot and smoking. When the recovery lorry arrived even its winch had trouble moving the van.
£270 later and 6 hours after stopping, we dropped the caravan off at our dealer, an AA rip off, but that is another story.
Today, the dealer talked to ALKO who told them that the ONLY way this could happen was if the handbrake was left on. The handbrake was off when we left the campsite, I did it and my wife checked it as part of our departure checking. When we stopped on the roadside a friend towing his own van behind us confirms the handbrake was still off. The dealer engineers also confirms the handbrake had nothing to do with the ATC problem and confirmed that the ATC was engaged which caused the wheels brakes to engage.
Fortunately, the caravan has not suffered any damage and the ATC has been reset. I await the result from my dealers discussions with ALKO regarding the cost of the recovery and the repair.
My dissapointment is that ALKO cleary knew, at least from the post above, that leaving the handbrake on is not the only way their system can lock the brakes on and they were dishonest to try and push the blame onto me without any investigation at all.
My problem now is that I have lost confidence in the ALKO ATC system and am thinking about having the whole thing removed and returned. Perhaps I will change my mind once my blood pressure lowers.
My dealer just contacted me and they have been working with Al-Ko and found the following.
On the mains, with charger on, and car disconnected. If you press the car battery button on the panel in the caravan the ATC starts its activation process. If you don't hold it down long enough, the ATC arming will stop mid way.
Switching back to the caravan battery button removes power from ATC and the warning light would be out.
Then, if your car does not have pin 9 active, it will not complete the arming cycle and the brakes will be left where the arming cycle stopped e.g. engaged or partially engaged.
My car is a Ford and doesn't have pin 9 active, which is a separate issue I am taking up with them.
I don't specifically remember pressing the car battery button in the caravan, but it is not an impossibility. However, in my humble opinion, the ATC should not be able to be armed without the car attached, it just doesn't make sense and can clearly cause major problems.
My dealership, Countryside Caravans Hatfield Peveral, are not charging me for their work, and are getting back to Al-Ko regarding the relay cost I incurred, and more importantly how to get a warning to other ATC users to prevent it happening again. They were able to recreate the problem on another caravan.
My dealer has now asked me if they can keep my caravan for a while as an Al-Ko engineer wants to visit it and plug his laptop in to do some diagnostics. I am more than happy to help.
I am a bit more heartened that we now have some serious investigation going on rather than the initial jumping to conclusions and gratuitous finger pointing. This is just too serious to reset the ATC and hope it won't happen again.
Even better. I have just heard from my dealership that Swift want to co-ordinate one of their engineers for the visit with yours. Although this means more delay, I am still happy to help.
What a shame I had to go through a "Victor Meldrew moment" before getting some real focus. I have to compliment Countryside Caravans on not letting this go and pushing on with Al-Ko and Swift to get to the root cause.
I think it fair to say that we agree on the basic facts as far as we can we know them, which I stated in my post of 17/6/2009 at 10:55am , but disagree on the root cause of the problem.
I maintain that the ATC should not be capable of being partially armed when the tow car is not attached.
You maintain that if the tow car had power on pin 9, the partial arming process would have been cleared when hitched up.
In my opinion, the underlying problem is the partial arming and my understanding from you is that you blame the tow car.
I accept the tow car would have cleared the problem if it had power on pin 9, but in no way could this be considered the root cause of the partial arming in the first place.
There can be no sensible reason I can see for the ATC to be armed when the towcar is not attached, and can only be enabled by the wiring between Al-Ko and Swift, and if it were a possiblility for a customer to activate it, then there should be a warning somewhere in the user guide(s).
I look forward to an early report from your engineer, the Swift engineer and my dealer next week, and your proposal as to how to bring this quickly to a satisfactory conclusion.
Seems to me like the real problem is the combination ot hthe Swift wiring and Fords failure to connect pin 9. It is not desirable to arm the ATC with no towcar, but Swift have allowed it due to the way they wired the van. Could you not power the ATC as it appears happened here from the leisure battery whilst towing thus eliminating the need for pin 9?
I agree, there is more than one problem and, as you say, it is not desirable to arm the ATC without a towcar. I would go a bit further though and say it should be impossible to arm the ATC without a towcar AND power on pin 9.
Your ingenious lateral thinking in your last sentence has me worried though. I suspect you could well be right, but should the leisure battery run flat when the ATC was in the process of correcting a snake and there was an accident, I can just hear Al-Ko denying any responsiblity as the ATC was not powered from pin 9 as per their documentation.
But the leisure battery should be getting charged through the 12S anyway, so that should not happen.
I think I should sut up now as I fear I could be giving AlKo, Ford and Swift opportunity to blame someone other than theselves when clearly there is fault on all three parties. The least of whom in my opinion is AlKo, whom are the only ones with any contribution to this thread and seem to be the only ones interested in sorting it out.
In AlKos defence, this could be the first time they have become aware of the conflict between there equipment and the nature of Ford and Swift's wiring defects.
I am not sure if 12s is relevant, this is a 13 pin plug ISO 11446 and to be honest I don't understand how the caravan manages charging the leisure battery from the tow car as I don't have power on pins 9 or 10. Mind you, I will on Monday!
In my humble opinion, the only one involved that have been really interested in sorting this out in the first place is my dealer, Countryside Caravans. Gold star to them!
Swift have only just been brought into this and their first response was to ask to have an engineer engaged. Fair enough I thought, I will see what their response is.
Jury is out on Ford, I suspect their position would be how can they be blamed for having no power on the pins, which is hard to argue against. All that should happen is nothing.
I agree that Al-Ko started contributing on this thread, but I suspect only to tell me that Tim and Cary's problem was not Al-Ko's fault.
It could well be the first time this has happened, but Al-Ko immediately started by blaming me for leaving the handbrake on, stating that this is the "ONLY" way this could happen, now that is no longer a possible defence, they are switching to blaming the tow car for not having power on pin 9.
If they spend as much time next week getting to the root cause as they have done trying to shift blame, I think I will have a solution very quickly, and hopefully me, and all other users will be that bit safer.
After spending a long time reflecting on this, I have ended up at "No power on pin 9, no ATC activation" This is the only real safe position.
Many thanks for your contribution though, it gave me some other avenues to think about, I really appreciate it.
Cheers, the first thing I did when I found out my tow car couldn't activate the ATC was to call the insurer and have the discount removed before I went out on the road with it.
A day of all things motorhome and campervan. The show is held both in the main indoor arena and across the grounds. Catering, hot drinks and food options are available. Easy access to the site and free parking included. Win one of five pairs of day tickets
Topic: Problem with Alko ATC & brakes locking on
