Message Forums

This is something that we often see plastered around noticeboards, at the foothead of some restaurant menus, and indeed on some campsite notice boards, the Disclaimer, something along the lines of 'anyone using this showerblock do so at their own risk' or 'The management cannot be held responsible for any accidents that may happen whilst using this playpark' if you get the gist of it.

But if an accident did happen,would this kind of notice carry any weight in a court of law should someone try and claim for any injuries or harm sustained whilst using such an area or service?

Our daughter has done her LLB, and we have asked her the same question, but as shes newly qualified, I thought it would be good to get other peoples views, especially those with many years experiance in the legal proffessions, and may be Phil if he doesnt mind please.

 The senario is that a group of enthsiasts meet up in a public place several times a year, and put on a BBq and have a few drinks ect under several gazebos, that they erect themselves, often on public parks and picnic areas. The general public often walk through the areas at the time, and theres numerous children and dogs about. They are adament not to pay the £50 a day for events insurance, and plan to just stick disclaimer notices up instead. If someone was to have a mishap and try and do a sort of 'no win no fee' type of claim, what protection would this type of disclaimer give them? who would be responsible if a claim was made? The group is of about 30-70 people, with normally a couple of leaders who do most of the arangements.

This is surely something that crops up when people arrange caravan rallies and camping meets, where theres clearly a leader such as an area chairman ect, and some activities may be included in the weekends plans, especially when a rally field or tempory farm site is used for the event.

Thanks,

Julia  

The display of a disclaimer notice (often found in cloakrooms and car parks) in respect of injury, damage or loss to any person or property whilst on the premises or making use of the premises, may not have the effect of avoiding liability.

 Professional advice should be taken on the use of disclaimer notices.

Saxo1

You cannot contract out of any liability for death or personal injury either by a term in a contract or by notice. When you have such a "do" you are entering into a contract with those you invite or those for whom you make access available. Section 2 (1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act applies.

As we are talking about public land the public authority which owns it should actually be stopping the event or granting the organisers a licence to use it. It is land owned by that organisation and they are legally entitled to say who does what on it. That public authority has a duty to the public to ensure that its public places are safe to use. BBQ in public operated by people who have such a scant regard for the use of public land does tend to ring alarm bells. I know "health and safety gone mad" but how many times do people comment on health and safety gone mad when something untoward happens....e.g. carbon monoxide in the gazebo. They don't...they balme the folk who cause the problem

Anyway if something does go wrong the first thing that anyone will do is sue the public body which owns the land because, clearly, they have not exercised due diligence by turning a blind eye. That body's insurers will deal with any claims and then proceed to recover their losses from the organisers of the "do.The best option is to sue the one who has the best possibility of paying up e.g the one with the biggest house. Get judgment againt that person and then apply for a charging order on the house (rather like a mortgage) and then apply for a possession order and then sell the house.

Now tell me it doesn't happen. Been there got the t shirt and all that....

Problem is that when everything runs like clockwork no one ever thinks that this can happen and so folk just have a scant regard for the use of public property. Then things go wrong and then they wish they had done it properly......applied for consent to use that land and taken out insurance.

Phil

Thanks Phil, as usual your reply has been most helpful, and i will pass the message on to the organisers.

Julia

As we are talking about "public Land" I am guessing that it may be the local park owned by the Local Authority. So, other issues to consider.......

Parks tend to be regulated by Byelaws and often they include a prohibition on drinking alcohol in the park. If that applies in your example, I guess that the family party may include the odd tipple. So, potential for criminal charges.

General park Byelaws include for a prohibition on lighting fires so, again, another potential prosecution.

Perhaps music is being played and which may amount to a nuisance.........

Hence the need to obtain the land owners consent to the use of their land. Parks are for everyone so if a private party is being organised the public become excluded from the area and that may cause friction with the locals. Friction can lead to confrontation. If the Council has sanctioned the event it can provide support e.g provisions of barriers.

Then there may be costs incurred in cleaning up the park afterwards. Parties can involve litter and its a £50 a time penalty for each item of litter dropped if you don't have the Council's approval

It's about respect for other peoples land. The Local Football team has to obtain the Local Authorities approval for the use of the park for their organised competitive matches so why wouldn't other users organising a formal gathering. The last thing you want at a family party is the Local Authority arriving to stop the event.When they do give their approval it is a normal condition that public liability insurance should be in place.

Look here http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/01/law . The case was managed through their home insurance policy. Now if your friends do not have insurance cover just think of the cost for a case going through to the court of appeal. Even when you have won there are costs to pay. In this case the parents lost the case at the lower court and were ordered to pay out some £1m. If you don't have the insurance to cover the costs of the appeal then you end up stuck with the original decision. Where would the claimants get their compensation from? By selling that defendants family home. Accidents happen all too easily and for the sake of £50 isn't the comfort worth it?

PhiI

That's a risk assessment and a means for identifying the party liable. Before an event everyone will say that there cannot be any accident and if there is it won't be my fault. You just end up not having any insurance ....until it is too late. 

I pay for Occupiers Liability insurance but have never had to call on it. I used to have professional Indemnity cover but never had a claim. It's just what you have to do....just in case

Phil

Phil, you have got me interested in the 'occupiers liability insurance' now, Is this something that is normally part of a good household insurance package, that covers contents, buildings, and legal cover, or is it an entirely separate thing?

Julia  

Its usually a standard clause in your household insurance policy. For your caravan and car insurance such legal cover tends to be optional. You may even find, if you ask your insurers, if such cover can extend to a family party in the local park. If it is not standard cover they may just offer a better premium than a stand alone policy for the party

Phil

Thanks Phil, I do have legal cover on both my car insurance policy and Household policy, although the latter has restrictions as to what I can actually use it for.

As for the group of enthusiasts, I have had to make it clear to them, that Im not going to get involved with helping organise any more of their 'Meets' as one individual now thinks that as long as they hold them off council owned land, and stick a few 'disclaimer' notices up courtosy of something his mate has given him, they will be ok!

Theres no real telling some people, they just have to learn the hard way.

Thanks again Phil, anyway.

Julia

If they are on land that they do not own wouldn't this be a trespass?

If they are trespassing then the owner of the land can sue the trespassers just because they are on their land. Thus the organisers of the party would be putting everyone at risk of being sued (potentially) by the landowner.

Generally if you trespass on someone else's land and you are injured you cannot sue the owner of the land. Thus the rights of the people attending the party are actually  more prejudiced by holding a party on land that you should not be on. That merely provides an encouragement to sue the person organising the trespass if anyone does suffer an injury that would otherwsie be covered by insurance.

Rod and back springs to mind if a trespass is what is proposed.

Phil