We picked up our new caravan - Bailey Phoenix GT75 642 (our first 4 berth) on Friday and had a lovely two nights away putting her through her paces. Just a couple of points for concern that we’d like some advice from you guys on. When we were manoeuvring her back onto the storage site (using the motor mover) she kept trying to tip backwards so much so that I had to hang on to the jockey wheel to keep her stable. Now with their newer vans Bailey have moved the gas bottle from the from to the middle and the spare wheel is underneath one of the rear beds so we’re wondering if next time we need to load her differently putting a lot more weight at the front which is obviously what we tried to avoid during in our previous vans!
The other problem we had is that the 13 pin connector is very difficult to both connect and remove from the cars tow bar (it’s definitely aligned correctly we checked) the dealership themselves actually commented that it was very stiff when they were helping us hook up before awe left so does anyone know if we can do anything to make it a bit easier?
I'm not sure about the tipping problem but certainly sounds like a loaded weight problem. I suggest you check your caravan tow all weight. It sounds as though you totally with a rear end over weight. If so move things over or forward of the axle. As for the 13pin we had a similar problem when changed front 7 to 13 pin. Our engineer lubricant ed it and it's OK for the past 3 years. I've got to say it still seemed a little harder to push in but I'm guessing it's because you've got 13 pins to push into female sockets rather than 7.
We always tow with as much weight on the car's towball as the car and caravan's specifications will allow. It sounds like you have far too much weight behind the caravan axle. It would be very dangerous to tow like that.
Well that first point set alarm bells ringing! Sounds like your towing nose weight was DANGEROUSLY low!
It should be 5-7% of caravan laden weight, now for your van if my van info is correct, that should put it between 64 and 100 Kg (5% of MIRO - 7% of MTPLM, but also needs to be below car/towbar limit!) - There is no way an unhitched van (without addition weight placed in the rear after unhitching) should have the nose coming off the ground and tipping like yours!
I can walk into my rear bathroom (without steadies down) and still not get van to tip, and my nose weight is only around 70Kg (and regularly checked with accurate scales!)
Sounds like you need to get some weight into the nose PDQ! - or lighten the rear, spare wheel at the rear is a hefty load! Very few vans in their MIRO state are well balanced, it takes a bit of load juggling to get nose weight correct - For instance, I need to 'lose' a whopping 45Kg off my nose weight in MIRO set up to get it to suit the car/towbar limit of 70kg, it's even 15Kg OVER the Alko caravan chassis limit! LOTS of very careful load juggling to get it correct! Bathroom scales and a piece of wood to act as a spacer (to get correct hitch towing height) is an adequate check, but a 'Milenco precision nose weight gauge' (some of the cheaper alternatives are notoriously inaccurate!) makes it easy to do regular checks.
Two reasons for having correct weight bias towards nose, it reduces risk of snaking by making the outfit a more stable tow, and it reduces risk of the tow hitch parting from the tow ball under wear/fault conditions. Your current set up sounds far from correct/ideal!
13 pin connector tight - trailer plugs can suffer a lot of abuse, they get trod on and run over by jockey wheels which distorts them, and they get laid on the ground where mud and grit get embedded in threads and rotating parts! A squirt of silicon type lubricant (better to use a 'dry' silicone one than an oily 'wet' one like WD40 which can draw even more muck to stick to it!) can ease things, but a new plug is only around £5 and often just the easiest solution.
We can’t move the spare wheel unfortunately as that’s where it’s fixed to be but I definitely think before we take her out again which won’t be until the spring we need to try some loading scenarios (we have a Milenco Nose Weight gauge to check). The dealer did say to us under no circumstances get in the van if it’s unhitched until the rear steadies are down as it will tip but we didn’t expect it to be tipping when we were just moving it.
As for the 13 pin connector it is new so hopefully shouldn’t have suffered any abuse yet so we might get our engineer to have a look at it and maybe add some lubricant to see if that helps.
I think our caravan would tip backwards if I was to get in without the steadies down or it being hitched to the car. However, I would struggle to lift the front off the ground normally. It certainly sounds like you have far too much weight at the back end. Towing with too much weight behind the axle would be a very scary tow.The caravan would feel very unstable, particularly when passing, or being passed by large vehicles.
If you can't move the spare wheel, you need to make sure you only store very light, even if bulky, items behind the axle. In my experience many caravans have quite the opposite problem. Too much nose-weight.
As for the 13 pin plug, I can't help as being an oldie like me, our caravan has two 7 pin plugs.
We used to have a Bailey Orion with the gas bottle in the middle and no front locker and we had to load a lot of heavy stuff in the footwell between the two front seats to get the nose weight correct. We weren’t able to store anything under the bed as it was behind the axel and caused instability.
We now have a swift and have the opposite problem. We have a tough time getting our noseweight down! You just need to play around with loading to get the right noseweight.
Get a Milenco nose weight gauge and load the caravan so that you have the right weight on the tow bar but don't exceed your tow bar limit (this is specific to your model of car).
One you have it nicely weighted then load your caravan in a similar way in the future.
Some caravans have bike racks on the back - if yours does -try without bikes loaded.
If you can't wedge things in place Milenco cargo bars will help prevent things shifting when driving.
OP mentions they have a nose weight gauge, so that's covered.
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We have the Phoenix GT75 640 but have not had the tipping issue. The spare is under the rear bed, plus the table, so we don't put any heavy stuff under it. We have stuff stored under the front seats, plus the Truma heater is at the front.
Our plug is a bit tight too, I expect it will loosen with use. It is stored in the recess for it on the A frame cover when not in use.
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Thanks for your replies everyone, it definitely looks as it we need to load this van very differently from our previous two vans. Fortunately we have got a nose weight cage and plenty of time until we take her out again so we’ll have to experiment and see what we need to move forwards to make things heavier but obviously without exceeding the nose weight max for the car.
As to the plug I think we’ll get our engineer to have a look at it to see if there’s anything he can do to loosen it up a little and I expect it’ll loosen up a little with use anyway.
You don't say what your tow car is, which can make a LOT of difference, but would have expected such a light nose weight to have towed like a pig and been VERY noticeable!
Not only do you increase risk of snaking dramatically, but you get a see-saw effect on van that causes back of car to rise and fall as van rocks back and forth on it's axle - feels like driving an endless undulating road!
It's surprising how little weight it takes located in the wrong place to turn an otherwise lovely towing stable van into a worry or even nightmare - I once stowed a circa 7Kg TV in the rear bathroom wardrobe (at very back of the van), instead of under the usual front bench, it was so noticeable with an unaccustomed 'wobble' to the van, I stopped and relocated it after only a few miles, that returned the impeccable towing stability I'd always had before!
Not a lot of guidance anyone can give you on specific loading as we don't know what you carry, but standard practice of - heavy stuff low down and above axle, keep anything heavyish out of the very rear, ensure nose weight is correct, serves most of us very well. Don't be afraid to play around with how you load until you get the right set up, then try and stick with it, saves 'experimenting' every time you use the van!
Plenty of people seem to find they need to tow with rear underbed lockers empty or only containing VERY light stuff in order to get good towing characteristics! - bit of a gripe with some that all that space is unusable until pitched up!
Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 17/12/2024
You don't say what your tow car is, which can make a LOT of difference, but would have expected such a light nose weight to have towed like a pig and been VERY noticeable!
Not only do you increase risk of snaking dramatically, but you get a see-saw effect on van that causes back of car to rise and fall as van rocks back and forth on it's axle - feels like driving an endless undulating road!
It's surprising how little weight it takes located in the wrong place to turn an otherwise lovely towing stable van into a worry or even nightmare - I once stowed a circa 7Kg TV in the rear bathroom wardrobe (at very back of the van), instead of under the usual front bench, it was so noticeable with an unaccustomed 'wobble' to the van, I stopped and relocated it after only a few miles, that returned the impeccable towing stability I'd always had before!
Not a lot of guidance anyone can give you on specific loading as we don't know what you carry, but standard practice of - heavy stuff low down and above axle, keep anything heavyish out of the very rear, ensure nose weight is correct, serves most of us very well. Don't be afraid to play around with how you load until you get the right set up, then try and stick with it, saves 'experimenting' every time you use the van!
Plenty of people seem to find they need to tow with rear underbed lockers empty or only containing VERY light stuff in order to get good towing characteristics! - bit of a gripe with some that all that space is unusable until pitched up!
Good luck, and happy camping with your new van.
Our tow car is a Honda CRV and towed our previous van which had exactly the same MTPLM, with no problem I think we’re going to have to do some experiments before we take her out again.
When I bought our current caravan from a local dealer I just hitched it up and drove home without bothering to check the nose weight. Not that I could have done anything about it anyway as the caravan was completely empty of any of our usual "stuff". It wasn't at all happy with how it handled, it felt very "lively" at the back end. However, when I loaded it up with our gear and set it up with the right nose-weight for the car, it towed like a dream. Now I hardly even know it's on the back, especially as it's way under our car's maximum towing weight.
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Topic: Caravan Tipping & Tight 13 Pin Connector
via mobile 16/12/2024 at 3:36pm
