Due to a very large, very unexpected bill for MILs care before she died (long story but the council cocked up big style) it's looking like we'll have to sell our 12mth old van. Feeling a bit gutted at the moment - it took a while for me to fall in love with the new van, but now I have the thought of having to sell it is awful.
Anyway, emotional bit out of the way, can anyone give any advice on:
1. Thought of advertising on Caravanfinder, Ebay classifieds, Caravn Club Free Ads, on here, Preloved & poss Autotrader. Are there any other good sites to use?
2. Getting a value is proving difficult - we've been offered £10k trade, seen 2007 vans advertised between £10k & £13750, but nothing for 2009 private sales. We paid £15295 & I'd hope to get £12,500. Is that realistic?
Obviously the better price we get for ours, the more we'll have left over to buy another van.
One thing that's really peeing me off is we've just spent £700 on a gorgeous Bradcot extra wide awning! I've already decided we'll keep it & if poss get it altered to fit whatever we end up with. If we can't do that we'll have to sell it seperately.
Hey ho, life throws stuff like this at us sometimes but we'll get over it & at least we'll have enough money left to buy something half decent.
Aww Vanessa, I'm really sorry to hear that, you must be really gutted that you have to sell. Obviously I don't know the whys and wherefores but if the council cocked up is there no way of sorting it out and reducing the amount of the bill? I would suggest going to your local CAB and getting some advice from there before you start advertising your van, they may be able to help you tackle the council - unless of course you've already done that.
------------- Tigermouse
I have a very temperamental personality - 50% temper and 50% mental
Thanks Eunice. I think we'd rather just get it out of the way. If it's money owed it's fair enough. Just wish they'd got their story right in the 1st place so we could have paid it 1st & then spent less on a new van & the work we've had done on the house!
Still, it needs paying & at least we're fortunate enough to have an asset we can sell to pay it with. It won't stop us caravanning - we'll just be doing it in a differrent van.
if they have made the error can you not offer to pay in installments rather than sell the van?
------------- "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." In memory of Bear. 06/03/06 - 25/01/12 Izzie 23/09/07 - 25/03/13
yep- same advice here, please dont jump and sell your van, get CAB advice or through a free 1hr appt from a solicitor, surely payments can be made, afterall -- your life does have to carry on and there will sure be some memories in there. If the error is on their part- you can offer to make payments that suit you--they cannot or should not demand ALL payment in full. Think about it first and get some advice. Hope things get sorted for you. Gary
Thanks for the support folks. We'll contact CAB etc... but would prefer not to get involved in paying installments as that'd eat even more into our now very much reduced income following me being made redundant & now working for considerably less! If it needs to be paid I think we'd rather just bite the bullet & get it over with.
Looks like I was over-estimating it's value by about £1200! Now I'm getting mad. OH wil be phoning CAB in the morning to see what we can do. Don't see whay we should lose that amount of money because of someone else's mess-up.
Dont put up with the s*** from the council! Local Authorities are VERY good at saying "oh whoops WE made a mistake now YOU cough up immediately to rectify it" You will find that the courts (if the council are stupid enough to take it that far) are VERY sympathetic to folks in your position. Try contacting your local MP, dependant on who he/she is you may get a lot of influential support from that direction. Given the cuts etc, a lot of council officials are very concerned about their jobs and will do just about anything that exposes their errors. Despite what they may say, they DO have a great deal of leeway for writing off "debts" especially when its their c*** up that caused them
------------- hawk
"Laugh and the world laughs with you, snore and you sleep alone"
I have the body of a greek god - its in my freezer
Don't know the ins and out but talking basic principles care is paid for by the person being cared. So, its Mums' debt and as she has sadly passed away they cannot persue her, or you, for the debt. But see below
Now, if she left any money in her estate then the debts she accrued had to be paid out of that estate first before any beneficiaries received their bequests. So, if the money in her estate was spent before all debts were met those who were creditors could possibly take action against the executors of the estate. If the executors did not enquire about any debt but just distributed the estate, then they are in breach of their duty and can be persued for the debt. Tricky action though. Executors could not simply argue, "well you never wrote and told us about the debt". Executors have to look for the debt rather than wait for creditors to come knocking. So, if the LA took ages to send out a bill that does not absolve exectors of their obligations and they could be liable. This scenario happens a lot in relation to care bills and from my experience a LA rarely chases Executors for the money, if those executors are family and beneficiaries. The LA simply accepts that folk make mistakes with the best of intentions.
If you agreed to what is called a Third Party Top Up then you pay whatever is due under that contractual arrangement. Broadly, a Third Party top Up arises when a person goes into a care home that is more expensive than the one that the Local Authority is willing to pay for. The LA pay what they normally pay and the "third party" a relative pays the rest. If that id the case then you have to pay.
Then there is the principle of Equitable Estopple by representation which is always a good defence to a demand for money. How that works is that if you were the executor of the will (and beneficiary) and you asked the LA if Mum owed any money for her care and they said "no" and you relied on that to distribute her estate, say bought a new car, then it would be wrong, in the eys of the law, for the LA to come along later and ask for money they said was not owed when you had spent it in good faith. It would be "inequitable." Bet the CAB don't come up with that argument.
Then there is simply a mistake on your part. That is to say, assuming the debt is your responsibility. I will give you a personal example. My Dad passed away a couple of years back. Just a few weeks after he died Inland Revenue wrote to Dad asking for arrears of income tax. Dads' timing was awful...he died just before the end of the Tax year!!!! They didn't know he had died. Mum was about to pay it as they had enough in the bank to cover it, but it would have left Mum a bit short what with all the other expenses at the time. Anyway I wrote to the Inland Revenue and explained that all of Mum and Dads assets were held in joint names, including the Bank account/House etc. so that immediately upon Dads' death everything was, in law, owned by Mum. Thus Dad died without leaving any money in law, so there was no money in his estate to pay the tax bill. Nice legal point to remember. Inland Revenue accepted that and wrote off the debt so my Mum did not have to pay, You see she simply mistakenly believed that she had to pay when, legally, she didn't.
So there may possibly be some ways around your dilemma.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
Hi, sorry to hear about your situation, unfortunately caravans depreciate loads in the first few years and although yours is a 2009 it may well have been built in 2008 & we're now buying 2011 vans so people may class it as 3 years old.
I didnt think £12,500 seemed unreasonable especially for a Coachman but I presume most people would do as you have done and check used price guides before they buy.
Same thing goes for awnings unfortunately, the market is saturated with 2nd hand bargains, we bought a 3 month old, used once awning this year which had been £1200 new & we paid £200 so definitely keep it, you may end up buying a van of the same size or like you say be able to get it altered.
If you do end up having to sell you could try free ad places like bargain pages & put it up for £12,500, you wont lose any cash on advertising & could get the price you want. (If you do use eBay & sell it you will have high selling costs to pay)
Looks like I was over-estimating it's value by about £1200! Now I'm getting mad. OH wil be phoning CAB in the morning to see what we can do. Don't see whay we should lose that amount of money because of someone else's mess-up.
If you sell (as opposed to trying to sell) your van now just coming up to Christmas you would be lucky to get £5000 and that would be an eBay auction - low start no reserve - in other words it's the wrong time of year and it won't take long for the 'dealers' to twig that you need to sell the van.
I agree with everyone else fight the council, go see the CAB armed with a print out of Phil's post above, they will probably pass you on to a solicitor dealing with that type of case and Phil's post should help them choose the right approach to the council.
------------- Caravanning is a way of getting a cheap holiday out of an expensive hobby
As others have said, we don't know the full details of your situation/circumstances, but having had the recent experience of my father having dementia, being admitted to hospital and thereby becoming the responsibility of the local social work department, I would urge you not to simply pay-up.
If it's a choice between a year old caravan and a bit of hassle, I know what I'd be choosing! Remember the time-honoured phrase, "don't let the b****** grind you down"!
And remember, simply 'rolling over' to the council's demands, if they're unjustified, means that they'll carry on doing it to other innocents. Remember they're in business to serve us the public, not the other way round!
Ahhh David, a welcome return of the old nil desperandum carburundum illegitami approach. I like it.
Incidentally, a Local Authority has a fiduciary duty to the Council Tax Payers to recover all money properly due to it. If it didn't and simply relied on increased tax bills to pay unrecovered debt we may soon complain. That's another way of serving the public. The emphasis however, is "money properly due". Maybe this debt is, maybe it isn't. I always reckon that these things are worth a letter at least.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
Amazing family weekend with old steam engines, classic car displays, market stalls, and full catering and bar. And camping on site - Save £25 by booking in advance.
Topic: Prob Have to Sell Our Baby
