Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 18/11/2008
The higher the voltage, the lower the amperage. This is why pylon cables carry around 33,000 volts; otherwise they would have cables thicker than oak trees.
Bertie.
So thats why the amps kill you not the voltage
------------- Roughing it in style at Calloose caravan and camping holiday park nr St Ives.(seasonal pitch)
Its not a hangover, its wine flu!
Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 18/11/2008
Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 18/11/2008
The higher the voltage, the lower the amperage. This is why pylon cables carry around 33,000 volts; otherwise they would have cables thicker than oak trees.
Bertie.
So thats why the amps kill you not the voltage
Don't worry I am sure that Bertie will come up with an answer. He always does!
Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 18/11/2008
Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 18/11/2008
The higher the voltage, the lower the amperage. This is why pylon cables carry around 33,000 volts; otherwise they would have cables thicker than oak trees.
Bertie.
So thats why the amps kill you not the voltage
No, it is the voltage that kills you. Amps is the load placed across the conductors, and is measured in resistance. Because the body is mainly water, its resistance is very low, so the effect is like putting a thin peace of fuse wire across the mains in your home.
Quote: Originally posted by Surfer01 on 18/11/2008
Amps is the load placed across the conductors, and is measured in resistance.
Bertie.
Where did you reference this as it was never in my training as an engineer?
Sorry, got ahead of myself there. Resistance is indeed measured in ohms. But volts divided by amps = resistance. Amps is the load produced by that resistance, (volts x amps = watts) and is measured in watts (kilowatt/hours).
Just to drag this bun fight back somewhere near the starting point.
I've just come back from, amongst other places, a month at Benicassim, Spain.
If your'e on the site for 31 nights or more then Bonterra Park meter the electricity at 31cents per kilowatt.
I'll admit to being tight with the mains but a month cost me £28. Bonterra Park charge 3.75 euros per night for stays of under 31 nights. With a site fee of about £10 per night, it pays to book for 31 even if you leave after about 21nights.
Let not one site owner say that they dont make money (and lots of it averaged over the year) from electricity.
------------- How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!
Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 18/11/2008
Amps is the load produced by that resistance, (volts x amps = watts) and is measured in watts (kilowatt/hours).
Saying that amps are measured in watts is a bit like saying apples are measured in oranges.
Current is measured in amps. Power is measured is watts (joules/sec). Potential difference is measured in volts. Energy is measured in joules (watt.seconds); in kwh (kilowatt-hours, not kilowatt/hour); in ergs (if you prefer cgs units) - or even in calories, BTU (if you prefer English money) or electron-volts (if you are an atomic physicist).
Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 18/11/2008
Amps is the load produced by that resistance, (volts x amps = watts) and is measured in watts (kilowatt/hours).
Saying that amps are measured in watts is a bit like saying apples are measured in oranges.
Current is measured in amps. Power is measured is watts (joules/sec). Potential difference is measured in volts. Energy is measured in joules (watt.seconds); in kwh (kilowatt-hours, not kilowatt/hour); in ergs (if you prefer cgs units) - or even in calories, BTU (if you prefer English money) or electron-volts (if you are an atomic physicist).
Cheers Andrew
Bertie will probably be along to correct you as he has to have the last word.
Blinkin 'eck! How many leccies are on this site? All that lot totally went over my head. All I know is that our hook-up point says 6amps, as it has all season. At the end of August the site owners said that their cables were burning with overload and they got a leccy to turn down the voltage. We think this is codswallop because one van owner saw the cables being laid down and he said they're quite adequate.
Since the leccy's been, we can't run the van heating on 1000 and watch the tele at the same time and we can't run a 1200w hoover (with EVERYTHING switched off) because everytime you flick the switch, the leccy blows. Up until then, we could also run a standard kettle no problem. We have now bought a 1000w kettle (which, according to OH will take the same amount of leccy because it is half the wattage and therefore will take twice as long to boil). We just think we're getting majorly ripped off because the nightly leccy cost hasn't dropped and there's a rumour its going up dramatically.
I'm just a book-keeper, I know nothing about these things!
Good news is that the price of power, i.e. electric should be declining within the next month or two therefore site owners will not be able to justify increasing their prices based on the cost of a electric unit. Some interesting arguments with site owners will probably transpire.
Quote: Originally posted by Karen13 on 19/11/2008
All I know is that our hook-up point says 6amps, as it has all season. At the end of August the site owners said that their cables were burning with overload and they got a leccy to turn down the voltage. We think this is codswallop because one van owner saw the cables being laid down and he said they're quite adequate.
Since the leccy's been, we can't run the van heating on 1000 and watch the tele at the same time and we can't run a 1200w hoover (with EVERYTHING switched off) because everytime you flick the switch, the leccy blows.
Your 1000watt heating and TV (usually rated at less than 100 watts) would consume about 4.6 amps if the supply voltage were actually 240v - so whatever the site is telling you, you sure do not have a 6amp supply any more.
The site has no means to turn down the "voltage" as I said previously, so that isn't what they have done. They may well, however, have installed a much smaller MCB (circuit breaker) - say 3amps. If they had installed a 3amp MCB then you'd expect it to blow in less than an hour if you have your heating and TV on at the same time (or even your heating on its own). If it blows virtually immediately, then it may be rated at less even than 3 amps.
Your 1200watt hoover is a different matter entirely. Motors use more current when running than their nominal power rating would indicate (its a bit complicated to explain on a forum - but there'll be plenty of pages on the web, if you really want to know why. Try googling "power factor"). Your 1200watt hoover might actually consume 8 or 9 amps on full load. When first starting, it might be as much as 30amps. This would cause a 2 or 3 amp MCB to operate in very short order. You *might* just get away with it on a 6amp nominal supply (i.e. with a 6 amp MCB fitted in the EHU point), but it would be touch and go.
If the site distribution cabling is overheating (entirely possible if it is inadequately sized) then it is their fault and it is for them to solve the problem.
Thanks Andrew, that made a lot more sense. All season we've all been able to run our hoovers, but its only since they've messed with it that it blows immediately on switching it on (the Spike, apparently?). The only problem we've had all year is to switch the heating from 2000w to 500w if we wanted to boil the kettle (which was a 2200w). This we think is reasonable, we're not greedy, as I said earlier we've even bought a 1000w kettle now. Now we can't run the van on 2000w at all. It blows at the hook-up point within a few minutes. The owner offered to have my friend's van "checked out by an electrician" to see if it was at fault! (Its a new Bailey, and there's nothing wrong with it).
At this rate the site will be empty till about May because it was bloody freezing down there at the end of the season and if you can't put the heating on - what's the point?
But anyway, enough of my grumbles, I'm going round in circles and repeating myself. Thanks again Andrew, as I said, you've answered a lot of questions for me. If I could find another suitable site I'd ditch my £100 deposit and shift the van, as would a lot of people I know. Shame really!
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Topic: electric bill
