Went to Barrons today to buy my first caravan (been camping for a while in a tent and wanted to step up) and I have been looking at the Bailey Discovery Neptune as it is brand new, light and cheap with the 6 year warranty (thought this to be a safest option for a newbie at towing) I had a look on the website called 'What Towcar' and made sure the match between my 1.6 7 Seater Renault Grand Scenic was OK (it came out as 76% match) which was perfect. However when Barrons in Chorley did the match they said towing the van with my Renault would be illegal as it broke some European Law about VIN Plate Weight. The guy did explain something about the weight of the car plus the weight of the caravan not exceeding the train weight I think. But I was so gutted as I only bought my Scenic last July and to change it I am going to lose a fortune with the Car finance package. Never heard of this VIN weight check but seems to be a problem with French cars or cars modified to take 7 seats that fold down in the boot. Basically their isn't a van light enough not to break the law for this vehicle. I have to say Barrons were great as they were totally upfront about it and could have just taken the sale, but I will have to have a major rethink now. Gutted!!!
DON'T PANIC!!! Barrons are wrong! Don't blame them though, as many dealers are unaware of this issue with Renault.
I came across a similar problem when we bought our van - a Bailey Ranger 470/4. We have a Grand Scenic 1.9dCi.
There are two legal issues with weights here - first is that it is illegal to exceed the manufacturer's stated maximum tow limit, and the second is that it is illegal to exceed the "gross train weight" (this is the total weight of car + caravan + all contents).
Have a look at your car's "gross train weight". This will be the heaviest figure on the car's plate (and also in the manual) - mine is 3050Kg. Now look at the kerbweight of the car (the weight of an empty car) - mine is 1530Kg. Now look at the weight of your empty caravan (MRO - mine is 967 Kg). Add together the kerbweight and MRO (967+1530 = 2497Kg). Subtract this total from the "gross train weight" and you are left with the amount of free weight allowance for all the equipment in your caravan and car (and passengers) - which in my case is 533Kg, which is fine. So on the first issue (being within the legal gross train weight, we are fine).
Now, Renault have a curious way of quoting the "maximum towing limit". For the Grand Scenic, this is quoted at 1300Kg "driver only" and then a much lower figure (my manual says 800Kg I think from memory) for "all other situations". So this would mean that as soon as you carry a passenger, your allowed towing limit goes down to 800Kg. Clearly this is ridiculous! I expect this is why you were told that the car is not suitable. But, there is a simple answer. If you contact Renault Customer Services Dept, they have a standard letter which they will send you, which confirms that the car is suitable to tow up to 1300Kg as long as you keep within the gross train weight. Effectively, it is saying that you can ignore the lower max tow figure.
I was in exactly the same position as you this time last year. We'd decided to buy a van, had a 1 year old car, and thought we'd have to ditch it all.
Do post again if you need further any further help, and good luck.
Sorry to hear about your dissapointment, but as you say at least the dealers were good, I have heard some horror stories from people where the dealers said there car was O.K. only to discover later that it was an illegal match.
I think there have been dissusions previously on the forum re Renaults, in particular re their Kerb / Train weight - this is set by Renault and as you said my understanding is that the cars that have the fold down seats which fold into the floor tend to have lighter towing limits because the floorplan is effectively weakend by having the cutouts for the seats. I'm sure someone will correct me if I got that wrong.
We bought a new (to us) 7 seater earlier this year and I was quite surprised that we had to rule out some of the scenics because of this.
Good luck in your hunt, what about an older van I believe some of those are lighter? What is the max tow weight for your car? Someone may know of a van that you could tow.
Hey that is good news from Andy eh? Hopefully when you do the maths it will work out for you and you can get the letter from Renault.
One thing I would say though is consider a Ranger not a Discovery, the weights are not much difference, neither are the prices, but the specification certainly is with things like blinds/mozzie nets etc.
Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 25/11/2007
Hey that is good news from Andy eh? Hopefully when you do the maths it will work out for you and you can get the letter from Renault.
One thing I would say though is consider a Ranger not a Discovery, the weights are not much difference, neither are the prices, but the specification certainly is with things like blinds/mozzie nets etc.
Ali
Yes - I meant to say that too. We originally looked at the Neptune layout, thinking the end bunks would be great for the children (aged 4 and 6). In the end, we went for the Ranger 470/4. The layout works really well, and the end bathroom is fab for young children - so good that we rarely use site facilties at all.
Also, you get blown air heating in the bathroom, and a carpet with the Ranger, and I think the Discovery only has a gas heater whereas the Ranger is gas or electric (might be wrong - worth checking though).
If you are in the CC, their techie people may have an "official" answer to this. I think Andy has it right. I think I slightly exceed the noseweight for my manufacturers' tow bar but it tows like a dream and the wee label just peeled off!
Thanks for this I will contact Rnault and see what they say. My max train weight is 3000kg and when the sales talked me through the weight of the van plus car including four passengers luggage etc it was close to the 3000kg mark. I am more woried about the effect on insurance claims should an accident occur or even whether It would be a problem getting insured at all.
I have set my heart on having a caravan for next summer and I am letting my heart rule my head at the moment. Just been told by my car dealer I would loose about £4000 on my finance deal if I changed cars now after only four months but I would not feel 100% comfortabe towing with the Grand Scenic not knowing if I have breached the 3000kg.
HI Fozzer, If Renault give you the standard letter re:towing capacity, you'll have no problem with insurance claims, Just make sure you make your insure aware that you intend to tow.
Happy vanning, you'll love it
------------- Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Just a thought why dont you load the car up with all the family and bits and bobs that you would take on holiday and go and weigh it at local weighbridge this will give you a rough idea what car and passengers will weigh then you can work out caravan and see if it is close to your 3000kg.
If your close to limit you'll just have to starve kids and wife for a week before holidays.
If you do deciede to go ahead i would do as some mentioned and get higher spec model for the sake of a few pounds, also once you get price from Barrons give Dumfries Caravan Centre a call if you dont have trade in he normally gives good price and theres always people from all over in picking up new vans.
We went to Highbridge and were interested in a van. They put our car into the computer to see if it matched. The guy was honest and told me it was legal, but advised against it, losing the sale. Many unscrupulous dealers would have just told me it was a legal match and pushed for the sale. I'd certainly consider them as a serious contender for a new van if I get a bigger car, so maybe they have potentially got themselves a future sale and maybe several more from me despite losing the first. I certainly admire them for their honesty.
Funny enough they told us the same thing with our Volvo S80 and on querying it car with the dealer found the car was an excellent match for our twin axle. Seems they may be doing something wrong thus losing sales. Weren't they taken over by the discovery group recently?
Quote: Originally posted by paulhic on 25/11/2007
Renault really needs to get its act together and give proper weights.
Believe it or not, they think they've simplified things.
You think Renault are bad, then what about Volvo and the variable max tow? Volkswagen and their mysterious Kerbweight that could vary 150kgs, Nissan and the X-trail or Saab and the 200kgs variablity in kerbweight.
If in doubt get the damned thing on the scales, be sure and then be safe!
Quote: Originally posted by Surfer01 on 25/11/2007
Funny enough they told us the same thing with our Volvo S80 and on querying it car with the dealer found the car was an excellent match for our twin axle. Seems they may be doing something wrong thus losing sales. Weren't they taken over by the discovery group recently?
I'd be inclined to agree with them. Isn't the Lunar's max weight around the 1550 mark? In which case the Volvo is around 1580 tops but as low as 1460 odd so you are towing either over or pretty much on 100% by my calculations.
They might have a max tow weight of 1800 kg but personally I would not tow with those weight ratios.
I hope you get sorted out. If you are still looking at a bailey - go for the ranger range the skylight in the font, and the finish is just bettr worth the extra
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Topic: Total Disapointment
