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Subject Topic: Parking caravan on own drive
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29/6/2009 at 8:59pm
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We have parked our caravan on our drive for the last 5 years with no complaints from anyone.  We have now purchased a longer van which we will collect next week and need to move it over by just a couple of feet towards our neighbours, they have complained today that they are not happy as we have just had a builder quote to block pave over our garden border. 

Does anyone know about covenants and caravans and attempting to enforce the covenant after so many years.



29/6/2009 at 9:16pm
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Parking caravan on own drive

hi if you do a search there is a lot of information on this subject



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29/6/2009 at 9:44pm
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Is there something in your deeds to say that a caravan should not be parked on your drive? If there is, then I doubt you have a leg to stand on. I don't think that is relevant that you have already set a precedent by having a caravan on your drive for 5 years.

We have a clause in our deeds to say no caravans. We do pay for storage but leave it on our drive throughout the summer for quick weekend getaways. No one has complained so far, but if they do we are aware that we will have to remove it from the drive.

Can you talk to your neighbours to see if you can reach a compromise?



29/6/2009 at 9:47pm
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If you park a motorhome they couldn't complain so why are they making a fuss over a caravan.  As someone has said there are lots of previous posts on the subject. 

Brian



29/6/2009 at 10:52pm
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Quote: Originally posted by brianconwy on 29/6/2009

If you park a motorhome they couldn't complain so why are they making a fuss over a caravan.  As someone has said there are lots of previous posts on the subject. 

Brian


 

Actually, they could enforce a covenant against a motor home as easily as a caravan.

The only legal definition of a 'caravan' is contained in the 1963 Countryside Control Of Development Act (as amended) which defines a 'caravan' as:

'Any structure designed for human habitation which is capable of being moved from place to place, either by being towed, or by being placed upon any motor vehicle, or any motor vehicle so designed'

It is the last part of the definition that catches motor homes - or, more accurately, 'motor caravan', which is how the law defines them.

Thus, any covenant that prohibits caravans also prohibits motor caravans - the fact that it is also a mechanically propelled vehicle does not alter the definition.

This has been tested in court as recently as 10 years ago to my own certain knowledge.

In 1999 a couple were keeping their Autosleeper motor caravan on the driveway of their recently purchased property.  They were aware of a restrictive covenant that forbade caravans being kept on any part of the property - but were confident that a motor caravan would be exempt from its terms.

A few days after moving in one of their neighbours called at the house and asked them what they intended to do about 'That thing' (the Autosleeper)

To cut the story short, the neighbour went to Court to ask that the restrictive covenant be upheld.  The couple argued that, as a motor vehicle, their Autosleeper was exempt, the court cited the definition that I quoted above - and upheld the covenant.

The couple had a legal bill of (if I recall correctly) £7,000 or £8,000 - and had to remove the motor caravan from the drive.

In fact, they parked it in the road outside their house - which, ironically, caused something of an obstruction, but which was perfectly legal.  I know this for a fact because I had an in-depth conversation with the couple in question.

Had they owned a caravan, they would not even have had the option of placing it on the road!

I know of another case where a caravan had been kept on a driveway for several years - in breach of a covenant, but with no complaint from any neighbour.

A new family moved in - and went to court to obtain a judgement requiring that the caravan be removed!  Again, the covenant was upheld, and the caravan had to go.

It's not widely understood that *any* party to the covenant can ask for it to be enforced.  If, for example, you lived on a large estate that was subject to the same covenant/s, anyone on that estate (even if they lived two or three streets away and were completely unaffected by the breach) has the right to apply to the court for the enforcement of the covenant terms.

That is an absolute fact.

The thing to remember is that the court will ALWAYS, without any exception, rule against the person who is in breach.  They have no alternative - fairness doesn't come into it, reasonableness doesn't come into it, only the strict application of the legal terms of the covenant matters.

It is also virtually impossible to get covenants rescinded - even if they applied to such arcane events as the tethering of pigs to your front gate, or restrictions on a gas lamp-lighter leaning his ladder against a certain wall.  Once the covenant is in place, there it stays until doomsday.

The only chance of waiving or varying a restrictive covenant lies with an approach to the developer of the land, if they are still around.

Builders always reserve themselves the right to modify restrictive covenants that they. themselves, place on the land - this is to ensure that the development is not hindered at some later stage.

If the covenant pre-dates the acquisition of the land by the developer - then he is also stuck with the, (as any subsequent purchaser of your property would also be bound by the terms of any applicable covenant)

When buying a new house it is always important to ask for a variation of any restrictive terms applicable to caravans - sometimes the builder will do so to secure a sale - but, even then, the variation would only be for your benefit, and would not apply to subsequent purchasers.

Covenant's are an absolute minefield! - if a covenant prohibiting caravans exists, but no-one minds, then all will be well.  However, it only takes one person (on any part of the development) to decide to enforce that covenant and you are well and truly st*ffed - no question about it, none whatsoever!

Best plan of all is to keep sweet with your neighbours.

 

 

 



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29/6/2009 at 11:04pm
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I agree with all the above. Been there and worn the teashirt, I fear storage or a smaller caravan is the answer,

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29/6/2009 at 11:08pm
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pop your caravan on a cheap pitch for a week & hire a huge american motorhome, Park it on the road outside their house.

Would be funny to see their faces.



30/6/2009 at 7:13am
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'Actually, they could enforce a covenant against a motor home as easily as a caravan.'

As it is a road legal vehicle you could park it outside their house on the road and they couldn't do a thing about it. 

As for covenants - is there one in force?  A neighbour could spend money on a court case only to find the van has been moved the week before the court case.  Travellers use all the twists in the legal system going and run rings around the legal people employed by councils.

Brian



30/6/2009 at 7:52am
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Cannot for the life of me see why you d WANT to keep it on your drive?

If it becomes "Part of the street furniture" Surely once it is'nt there, BIG alarm bells will ring with the local burglars!

"Oh look no ones in that house at the minute!"







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30/6/2009 at 7:57am
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"we have just had a builder quote to block pave over our garden border."

Am not completely sure of my my facts here, but, didn't legislation come into force last year stating planning permission is required for paving/block paving all/part of a front drive greater than a certain area? It might be worth checking that out?



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30/6/2009 at 8:23am
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What exactly did your neighbour say? We're they complaining about you having the block paving or about the caravan?

 



30/6/2009 at 10:44am
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I've always parked the caravan on our drive, as well as our horse trailer and car.   We don't have covenants on our house fortunately.  When we moved in the drive was all paved anyway, apart from holes where huge rose bushes were planted, as well as all round the dividing fence next door.   We ripped these out - dangerous spikey things 17, filled in the holes, planted conifers - which we trim twice a year and keep to the height of the caravan roof - our neighbours agree that it gives us all privacy and a bit of security, so we have no problems there.  


30/6/2009 at 11:28am
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We intend to keep our caravan on our drive as we are on a corner plot & have an enclosed drive with fence & 8ft privet between us and our neighbours & 6ft privet to the front of our house, with 6ft wooden gates so caravan would be largely out of sight.  Am I correct in presuming the covenents only come into play for houses built after a certain year.  I can't lay my hands on our deeds at the moment but as our house was built in 1933 its going to be really unlikely isn't it for anything to be contained within them??


30/6/2009 at 11:50am
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I know that in some areas you have to apply for a certain type of planning permission from the council to keep a caravan on your drive.  We are lucky as we live on a farm so have numerous places to leave ours. 

It might be worth contacting the council to check your rights and options.

 



30/6/2009 at 11:58am
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'I've always parked the caravan on our drive, as well as our horse trailer and car.'

Same here except we have 2 cars on the drive. 

If covenants are over a certain age nobody is likely to enforce them and if they did jusst move the van for a while.

'Cannot for the life of me see why you d WANT to keep it on your drive?'

Ease of use and convenience, and saving a few hundred pounds a year.  Do you have a caravan?  Personally I wouldn't bother with the van if I had to use storage.  Each to his own.  If burglars were targetting the millions of caravan owners who keep them on the drive then there would be plenty of press coverage. 

It appears sometimes that the people who oppose vans on drives the most are the ones who keep theirs in storage.

If you want to pave more than 5sqm of drive then you will have to use porous materials or blocks or aplly for planning permission.

Brian



30/6/2009 at 4:15pm
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It might be worth checking if the covenant (if there ever was one) is still valid. Some are put on by the builders while an estate is being built but are for a fixed number of years after the last house is built. Others are for ever and some are not even applied properly in the first place and are not actually valid at all.

Also, I have been informed that somewhere deep in the European Declaration of Human Rights there is a clause which says that anybody can keep their own property on their own property so long as it does not cause a nuisence to others and this would override any covernant in a court of law anyway.

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