I'm learning to sail and will soon want to buy my own sailing dinghy. The Mirror dinghy looks attractive because they claim it can be carried on a roof rack. The numbers add up as the hull only weighs 45kg and the car max roof load is 75kg. Not really any more than a couple of push bikes.
I wonder if anyone has towed a caravan with a boat on the roof rack. Was it stable and could you do 60mph OK. I also worry that the boys in blue are bound to pull me over to check it all, because it wil look overloaded.
This link is the original brochure, showing one on the roof of a mini
I would be very dubious about a mirror dinghy on the roof of a car if for no other reason than the depth of the hull. Have you considered the "Topper"?
You also need to consider how you are going to carry the rigging. All well and could saying it will go in the caravan, but what about when the caravan is on site and you need to get it to the water?
The mast and boom etc shouldn't be too heavy to go on the roof as welll the sails can go in the boot. In the brochure they show one on the roof of a mini (and that's a proper mini not one of these new fangled Beamers).
I'm looking for a double hander that can be sailed single handed. The Topper's a bit small for me, I'm 6' 4", the Laser's better.
I must admit I am nervous about it blowing about on the roof at 60mph, but I could tie it to the towing eyes front and back. The 2 man canoe must be the same, light and big
At 45kg there aren't many boats lighter. What I don't know; is car topping only suitable for low speed, short distances or is it OK on a motorway for 200 miles.
I remember the father-in-law towing an Elddis Hurricane with a Citroen Visa 1.7D, with mirror dinghy on the roof and an outboard in the boot!!
It managed really well over any peaks the welsh could throw at it, and even made the CC site at Dunnet Head on a Scottish jaunt..
Legal? In those days i don`t think anyone checked.
Advisable? Probably not nowadays, but incredibly he never had any instability issues and was more than up to keeping pace with the traffic ( we were either in front or behind - also towing).
years ago when i recall several frinends used to pull the van and have a topper or 2 on the roof of the car...no problem at all.....half the problem is getting them up there and back down again!
i think that the reason we dont see this these days is they seem to have introduced a roof load limit to cars so that is why a lot of people dont do it these days. I considered putting the laser on top, but roof load weights wont permit this, especially when i add the trolley on top, plus i dont have the muscles to lift it on :)
if i'm right you will need to establish what your allowable gross train weight(GTW)is and then see what the whole kit adds up to car/passengers/boat/fuel.
if your within that then i think you might be OK, but i'm no expert.
I've done that no problem, using a Cavalier and then a Vectra, so pretty standard cars.
The stability isn't usually a problem unless there are strong side winds. If anything the boat helps deflect air over the van. But in strong side winds the flat transom on the Mirror can cause a vortex that upsets the flow over the van. Just be sensible with speed and it's no problem.
Have you considered a Comet? They are smaller and lighter than a Laser, but very simple to rig since it's a single sail and the mast simply slots into the hull as the Laser mast does. The advantage of the Comet for the taller sailor is that there is a much bigger welldeck so they are more comfortable. They are however not as fast as a Laser, but miles faster than a Mirror.
Comets weight 50kg, so not a lot more than the Mirror - and bear in mind an old Mirror may well be over that weight anyway. I use an Easi-Loader roofrack which makes getting it up onto the roof a doddle. Have look at the Comet website, there's quite few for sale at the moment. They offer three sail variations - the main rig which is fine, the Extra rig which is actually slightly smaller and more stable, and the Mino which is a training rig.
The Comet is a slimmer hull so having on the roof will be much easier.
You do need to check all your wieghts, but it doesn't look like a problem to me.
Ususally, when people doing this get into difficulties, it's because they haven't secured the load properly. Use plenty of ropes or straps, including to the front and back of the car, and check frequently on your journey. The tightest of lashings can sometimes come loose.
Also, don't just tie the nose of the boat (on the centre line of the car) to a front towing eye at one side of the front. This is an invitation for the boat to swing round. You need to make up a bridle, secured at each side of the car, so you can get a central attachment point. It's good to do this at the back as well, but not as essential.
It will take a little time to do it right, but time spent securing the load is never wasted.
Construction and Use Regs don't appear to prohibit the idea so long as you
don't exceed cars laden weight
don't exceed train weight,
its secure
does not obstruct vision
does not stick out at the side beyond the legal limits
The roof boxes look like small boats don't they?
Just in case the boys in blue stop you just have all the relevant weight data available to show them you have considered the Regs etc. Boat on car will be out of the ordinary and so the Traffic Police will take an interest. Probably best not to use the paddles out of the windows though!!!!
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
Thanks for all your replies. I have checked the numbers and gross train weight etc are fine although fairly close, especially with the wife's 100kg mobility scooter as well. Luckily there are only two of us now so that helps. The 406 has a healthy 75kg roof loading.
Thanks Grad Sailer, the comet looks interesting and has the big advantage of being GRP, meaning more time sailing and less time varnishing. I guess an old wooden mirror could absorb a fair amount of water, increasing the weight; and there's the constant worry about rot. For me, they would be ideal for the weekly race.
However, I worry about taking the wife out in one. In the mirror she could sit on the forward seat and just slide across for tacking. With the high boom there shouldn't be too much ducking for her. With the comet, as a passenger, would she have to duck lower and move from one side seat to the other, which I don't think she would manage with her arthritic hip.
With the mirror, she could crew for me. I could sail single handed and for my son and me there's the extra challenge of using the jib and the spinnaker. Sounds like I'm trying to do too much with one boat.
Is the comet sufficently stable that I could expect not to capsize?
We're toying with the idea of her trying one of the sailability access boats. They are made for disabled users by having a very heavy keel and a low central seating position. The rudder is joystick operated and the ropes for the main and jib sails are brought right back on a series of pullies. We've got several in the club and they race along with everyone else. They go pretty fast too.
Mobility Scooter on top of the boat on the roof may be just a tad too much.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
With a disabled wife and only two of you, I start to wonder how you are going to get a mirror dinghy on and off the roof. I've lifted them and they are not light, nor are they easy to manhandle. With two able bodied people getting one onto the roof is going to be a struggle, with one able bodied person and a disabled person, I suspect it could prove almost impossible without having some kind of an accident.
You will also find it difficult to get your hands on a good ply mirror dinghy these days. They have been GRP for a good few years now and the ply ones used to rot. I replaced all the ply sections on one in my teens. It ended up with a bit of a twist in it but was great for sailing in circles
The Comet wouldn't suit someone with limited mobility - the boom is too low and it is really more of a racing dinghy. But for single handed use with occasional two up it's very good.
In terms of likelihood of capsize the Comet will go over easier than the Mirror, but tends to lie on her side whereas the Mirror has a nasty habit of turning turtle (lessened if you use an alloy mast rather than the heavy wooden one).
However, the Comet has the possibility of using the Mino rig which is very much less likely to capsize for a novice, and you can then progress to either the Extra or the main rig once you feel more confident.
If I overcook a Comet I can usually step onto the lower section of the mast, then step over the hull onto the daggerboard, pull the boat up and jump back into the cockpit as she rolls - so you don't even get wet. The one thing they are prone to is broaching on a high speed run if the bow dips into a wave. They are just a little bit too short when put before a strong wind - so I tend to sail just off the wind if racing in those conditions.
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Topic: Towing with a boat on the roof.
