Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 01/12/2011
There we have it, then, by using something like Faradays law we can determine if it is safe to leave the coil wound up when plugging it in. For the less scientifically minded use the overly simplistic approach of Robin when he said
OMG can we just agree its dangerous to use your cable while tightly coiled!
Phil
Can we also use the "If in doubt dont".So if unsure, go by what is written,happened and just unroll it all and wander up & down making a pretty set of about 6-8 longish lines. I will continue to do this, as after I first heard the advice from the CC&club mag a couple of years ago, before I knew this site was here. If someone knows better than I do which is most by the way, then to take notice to survive,to warn others of that advice is up to them whether they take it, Some have given me a smug,know it all look and kept theirs wound up around a big cotton reel shape, Another has said thanks I never knew that and promptly unwound his.What else can one do?
Some have given me a smug,know it all look and kept theirs wound up around a big cotton reel shape
That'll be the "it's health and safety gone mad" group
Phil
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Quote: Originally posted by arc systems on 30/11/2011Tightly coiled wire is used to produce the heat in expensive induction hobs. Crude as a coiled hook up cable is and while current is passing through it, it is still an induction coil.It is not then simply due to being coiled and not being able to dissipate the same heat it would produce if laid out straight.
It's the magnetic field created by being a 'coil' that produces the overheating!
So it's 'tightly coiled' that's the problem, loosely laid but still roughly coils or loops, even over lapping so as to be kept out of harms way, won't cause a problem.
This is always the question I ask myself about EHU leads and extesion leads. At what point does a lead become a 'risk' - i.e. when does lighly spooled end and tightly spooled begin?. Now I know all electricity is a 'risk' to a certain extent. Lets be a bit more specific.
I store my EHU lead on a plastic spool exactly like the one HERE. When I get to the site and start the 'hook-up procedure' I unwind the lead from the spool completely but leave the spool on the lead (because the plug goes through the hole on the side of the spool and it's not only a bit of a devil to get out, but we can then kick it underneath the van and are able to retrieve it easily and it dters anyon e from nicking it). I then connect the lead to the van and drag the other end to the EHU point on site. (I always connect the van end first to avoid dragging a live wire through wet grass etc.) I then follow the wire back to the van making sure it is away from anywhere where people could trip over it, as far as possible, taking a long route if I have lots of lead left. Any spare lead I kick underneath the van. Now much of this spare lead ends up loosely coiled on top, but it's not tightly coiled on a spool. Would folk regard this as being an unacceptable risk or not? I would be interested to hear peoples comments - it may effect what I do in future.
The way I read it is that according to arc systems, I am doing as much as one would expect to minimize risks. Do you agree or not?
Do the same as you David and over the years never had a problem.I too unwind every bit of the cable and with the excess its either tucked below the van or at the side in big loops to let plenty air over it.
There should be a big warning sign on any type of cable reel, not to keep wound when in use.
The correct way to lay out any excess cable is to lay it in a figure eight pattern,this also aids recovery if you reel it back on a spool and avoids any kinking.
The correct way to lay out any excess cable is to lay it in a figure eight pattern,this also aids recovery if you reel it back on a spool and avoids any kinking.
Saxo1
How about Saxo1 when I unwind it all up and then go using a handie ick up long hadle to go up & down not crossing any of it underneath my bed in the Pennine Fiesta we have got, I did say my bed not Bob's.so if it is going to roast anyone it is me no him. Then I put a double wrap around the site electric post before I lug in.That is about all I can do for that. The curly bits are a devil to get down flat keep flicking it over & over to get it ot lay down drives me mad having to do that. But is it is outside someone may trip up in it as we have had people cut rit through so close to us they have caught their foot on the delta pegs and fell with their hand or fist against my bed canvas with a yell or a grunt when I ask who or what the heck is that. Why oh! why do people use others paid for rented pitch for a cut through. We got those solar lamps so it the guys can be seen and they get hit also as they squeeze past.If the door was there I could shake hands with that is how close they are to walk through so they cannot be bothered to use the paths to go to the toilets. We have put our car in the way, and a windbreak to try to stop this but they still do it.
The curly bits you refer to are as a result of not laying the cable out correctly and winding it up wrongly,it's difficult to explain but if you are rolling it up by hand you should alternate the lay of the cable. It may appear inconsequential but if you kink a cable while rolling it up ,if it is warm, there is a risk of the copper cores migrating through the insulation and resulting in another electrical/fire risk.
DSB, you more or less do as I do, but, not 'taking a long route', I take the shortest route in straight lines, if there is a handy hedge or fence I'll follow that, this giving the least chance of someone tripping over it, the rest is basically and in your words, 'kicked under the van'....neatly!
Regards coiling, I don't use a drum, I grab one end in one hand and take even grabs with the other, my long one I take arm length grabs, this way you end up with even loops, the last bit is wound around the middle a few times and the end through the top 'eye' I'm holding, to hold it all together.
Basically, the loop size is judged to be able to comfortably hold the whole cable while coiled up in one hand.
What I never do is wind it up between thumb and elbow, like wool! I'm fairly sure it's this method that badly twists the cable and you end up with a right mess when laid out and it won't lay flat!.
I'll also add, it matters if your right or left handed? if someone right handed has regularly wound a cable, you can bet it will twist into a figure of eight if I try and wind it back up, and visa-versa of course.
Regards inductance, yes the maths says inductance through live and return coiled together cancels inductance out, but there is plenty of argument to if this is 100%?
I'm of the opinion, through practical experience, no it does not, ie, too much heat from too little current in too short a period.
Hi arc systems, Must admit I some times wind up cable hand and elbow, though I do this very loosely, and after sliding of elbow cable tends to twist into figure of 8, and next time it is unwound, it has some times got a few kinks in cable, though mostly lies flat, still have to de kink it, if wound tightly round elbow and hand, it may very well be worse, so there may be some basis for your theory.
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Quote: Originally posted by arc systems on 02/12/2011
What I never do is wind it up between thumb and elbow, like wool! I'm fairly sure it's this method that badly twists the cable and you end up with a right mess when laid out and it won't lay flat!.
Originally posted by jshw
Hi arc systems, Must admit I some times wind up cable hand and elbow, though I do this very loosely, and after sliding of elbow cable tends to twist into figure of 8, and next time it is unwound, it has some times got a few kinks in cable, though mostly lies flat, still have to de kink it, if wound tightly round elbow and hand, it may very well be worse, so there may be some basis for your theory.
Yes, I can confirm this, having spent many years winding up various vacuum cleaner cables. I have one cleaner currently working with me who insists on using hand and elbow to wind up the cable, no matter how many times I've asked her not to. It's ok for the first couple of times then the damn thing will twist and get kinks in it, getting worse the more times it's wound up like that, and if I have to use a vac that she's previously used I usually spend the first couple of minutes straightening out the cable.
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so if it is going to roast anyone it is me no him. Then I put a double wrap around the site electric post before I lug in.That is about all I can do for that. The curly bits are a devil to get down flat keep flicking it over & over to get it ot lay down drives me mad having to do that. But is it is outside someone may trip up in it as we have had people cut rit through so close to us they have caught their foot on the delta pegs and fell with their hand or fist against my bed canvas with a yell or a grunt when I ask who or what the heck is that. Why oh! why do people use others paid for rented pitch for a cut through. We got those solar lamps so it the guys can be seen and they get hit also as they squeeze past.If the door was there I could shake hands with that is how close they are to walk through so they cannot be bothered to use the paths to go to the toilets. We have put our car in the way, and a windbreak to try to stop this but they still do it.
